I agree with Jim & LG. I enjoy a tough layout as long as you can see what you're getting into. There's nothing worse than paying top dollar only to have your good shots eaten up by some architect's hidden "challenges". If I have to play someplace 4 or 5 times before I have a good idea of where & how far I'm supposed to hit it, well once is too many. BDR444, I was with you until you got to the blind shots. I hate 'em. The infrequent times that I do hit one stiff, I want to see the result.