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I have a practice iron that I really like the feel of, but it is a touch heavier than my set...how much I'm not sure...but I do know the tech at the shop I use has a scale to determine swingweight and would be able to tell me what my set weighs in at and what the practice club is...
My questions:
-Should woods and irons have the same swingweight?
-Should woods have a different swingweight from each other?
-What is involved in changing a swingweight?
-How many grams of lead tape changes the swingweight one step?
-Where should the lead tape be placed?
-Should wedges be a different weight than irons?
-Does it matter aside from personal preference?
-What effect does counterbalancing have on a club (lead tape under the grip ala J. Nickalus)?

This is from Tom Wishom's book, The search for the perfect driver......

Swing weight is the "perceived" heaviness of the head of the club when you swing it. The idea is to set up all the clubs in your bag (except the sand and lob wedges, and sometimes the pitching and gap wedges too) so they require the same amount of force to swing.
Swingweight is not really a "weight" at all. Technically its a ratio comparing how much weight is in the front two-thirds of the club with how much is in the back one-third.

There is no specific way of determining what swingweight is correct for any golfer, at least not by direct measurement. Some golfers like a driver with a heavy head feel, others a light headweight feel, and many others have no idea what they like because they never have had the chance to experiment with different swingweights to find out.

He does not state how and how much lead tape to change the swingweight.

In general, the swingweight a just a number and has more to do with personal preference than anything. However it can be used as a fitting tool as well. If I end up building a women's iron set that is D4 across the board, I have ******* up somewhere.

Lets just say I know exactly what swingweight I like each club, so it is a very important number to some. To answer your questions:

1. Should Irons and Woods have the same swingweight?

NO. The vast majority of the time I will build a men's iron set in the d3-d5 range. Drivers are typically around D1 if I can help it. If the player requires an extremely short driver, anything over D0 will do. FW woods are in the same ball park as drivers, except I personally like them somewhere in between. So FOR ME, D5 irons, D3 fw woods, D1 driver plus or minus. Wedges will be addressed below.

3. What is involved in changing swingweight?

There is only 3 possibilities. The grip, the shaft, and the head. Manipulating the grip end just to get to a specific swingweight is not recommended. The swingweight is based on a 14" fulcrum measured from the butt and done like a balance beam. It follows that less weight is needed to alter the balance at the head end because the beam length is more than 14"

5. How many grams of lead tape changes the swingweight one step

The approximate generic amount is 2 g of headweight/ per swingweight. This equates to about 4g of gripweight and 8g of shaft weight. For drivers, its closer to 1.7g headweight and 6g shaftweight. Irons will be higher, near 2.4g and 9g


6. Should wedges be a different weight than irons

The general rule of thumb is that with clubs that the player normally does not take full swings with (LW, SW) you can increase the swingweight which will allow for more feel and more consistent chipping. But again, this is a matter of personal preference.

Counterbalancing

The biggest thing with counterbalance is feel, which is tied in with swingweight to a point. Some say, a significant amount of backweight allows them to get through the ball better. I have seen interesting results using powerrings where the percentage of on-center hits with drivers has significantly gone up with the addition of 20-40g of backweighting. So, in this respect, it is a fitting parameter as well. It has been useful in the past to help players. The one that comes to mind is a guy that is having trouble with his irons and that they feel horrible. His dad had reshafted a set of Yonex tours heads to +3/4" length. These heads were meant to be D4 and 1/2" under... his irons were hanging around the E2 mark. I about shat myself. So I took 1/2" off and backweighted them with 20-30g to reach a acceptable d4. He loves 'em!

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Curious why you say using a lighter grip is not an acceptable way of changing swingweight. If swingweight is nothing more than how the head of the club feels to the person swinging it, a lighter grip would produce a heavier head.

I didn't say it was unacceptable, its just not a real meaningful adjustment. Basically, you are fooling the sw scale and that is all. Adding weight to the head or length to the club is much more significant.

I want to come back to you as you sound like you're knowledgeable on this topic. If I hear you correctly, then you're saying that putting lighter grips on to gain more swingweight you're "fooling the scale" and you're not really accomplishing anything. I have played Ping Eye2's off and on for many years, never cared for the very light swing weights, so I went the lighter grip route to gain a little more feel. You're saying that if I were to put on mid size grips I would experience the same feel although my scale might tell there was a considerable difference. If you're able to "fool the scale" then the scale isn't a reliable way to determine what you hope to accomplish. A guy started me on this when he told me back a few years ago to switch to Wynn grips to gain more SW. I did and liked the feeling, hated the grips, but now I'm wondering if this was necesary. I even added length to one set to bring the SW up on my scale and now I'm wondering if most of this is just playing with my head. Appreciate your answer.........and this is the extent of my club tinkering.

That is not exactly what I was saying. Let's say a guy comes into the shop complaining that his Ping irons feel too light and I put them on the sw scale and they read D0. Lets say on these irons he has his favorite grips, Lamkin Blacks, in a std. size/weight that he has been using for the last ten years. The basic rule of clubfitting, especially when it comes to grips, if the guy likes them and they work, you DO NOT CHANGE them. Sure, I could get him perhaps 1.5 more swingweights by installing Wynn grips but.... why? Is that really doing him any good? Can anyone even detect 1 sw difference? They say some pro's can, I certainly can't. What I would do (as well as most other clubmakers) is to have him hit shots with varying amounts of lead tape. When he starts hitting more on-center hits and his comfort level is high, I would send the appropiate amount of tungsten power down the shaft and cork it. This can be done without even changing out the old grips.

Obviously if you switch from a mid size grip to an ultra lite grip the club will feel differently in your hands. But this also introduces other playability factors for obvious reasons. The bottomline is that the grip is one of most important components of a golf club, its the players only contact with the golfing implement. Its just not good practice switching out people's grips for the sake of gaining or losing a swingweight pt. or two. This is insignificant. If a woman is fitted for women's size grip, you wouldn't install a midsize grip to bring the swingweight down, would ya? Again, any clubmaker will tell you this is not something they practice with any regularity. But, I don't doubt that some guy next to you on the range would suggest this. I see alot on this and other forums too.

I have a Ping G2 that came with a GP grip, and the sw was D0. I pulled the grip, which was pretty slippery after only a few days of use, and installed a new one that weighed only 37 grams. The GP weighed 53 grams. That was enough to increase the sw by 3.5 points, and make the driver feel and play much better. I think most good players could feel a difference of 3 points of change, and it would be worth trying. As for changeing grips, I don't see the big deal here, if the customer likes the new grips. There are some nice grips coming on the market the last few years, I'd hate to think all those new grips aren't going to be used, just because someone likes their old grips, and is afraid to try something new. Some times, just some times, NEW stuff is better than the OLD stuff. It's called progress.

I think AGoodWalkSpoiledAgain's point was missed. My understanding is that he wanted to state that switching to a lighter grip is not typically something that is done becuase how the club feels in our hands is more important than 1.5 swingweight points. I would agree, which is why I'm still using a cord grip on my clubs, in leiu of the new Winn grips (or other higher tech grips). In fact, there are players that still use leather wraps on their grips, because they like the feel better.

If it's what the player wants is the same grip, then a clubmaker should find other ways of achieving the specs because the grip is the most intimate part of the golf club. I believe that was Spoiled's point.

I guess I'm good with grip question but I'm now curious about the tungsten powder in the shaft. I don't want you to give away a trade secret, if this is one, but how much can you gain with this method? If I had a set of irons that I wanted to bring up 3 points on the SW scale is this a simple job? Also I have a great problem with swing weight in a putter. I currently putt with a putter I would love to shorten, but won't because they usually end up feeling too light to me, and I hate lead tape. I've heard guy's argue that the average guy can't tell 3 points difference, I must be very unique as I can do it every time. I appreciate you taking the time to answer and with great detail. I don't want to come off as a know-it-all as I'm certainly not. Just a guy that loves the game.

Whats interesting is that it works for you. You like the feel, it allows you to put a better move on the ball, you have more confidence, whatever.. The basic rule of clubfitting is that if it works stay with it. My point was that this is not a real common practice with clubmakers in the know. You can have grips on the opposite end of the spectrum weight wise, and, yes they will feel different. If the customer is comfortable with the new grip then it can be pursued. Its always easier to add swingweight than to make it less, switching grips you are limited and its not as efficient as other methods.

Its very easy! Tungsten is heavy boy. I can jack up the swingweight by 15 pts without the powder even reaching the top of the hosel. BTW, I think most guys can tell 3 sw points fairly easily.

Glfrjack; the 37 gram grip I'm using is a Sharpro PTO DualCord model, so it is a cord grip, should you want to check it out. The top half is cord for a good hold, and the bottom half is not.

I've been looking into the Sharpro grips, actually... usually good deals on eBay...

[quote=beemer I currently putt with a putter I would love to shorten, but won't because they usually end up feeling too light to me, and I hate lead tape..[/QUOTE]
I build my own custom putters, and I make a 17.5 gram lead weight that I can slip inside the tip of the shaft if I want to add some weight to a putter for a customer. Installing two of them brings the head weight up 35 grams, which is enough to really make a putter feel heavier. As for the tungsten, it's not a trade secret, Golfsmith sells the powder just for this use. You pour it down the shaft, and add a cork on top to hold it in place.
As for changeing grips to change sw, I don't see the problem. Granted, if the customer says he only wants one type of grip, you can't do this, but I find that most customers are open to the idea of a different grip, especially when they need new grips anyway. I can solve two problems at the same time, for less money. Most customers I know like that idea.