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A friend of mine said that my swing could be a candidate for counter balancing...
When I heard this, I started researching on it and began an experiment and put lead below the grip of my driver...25grams...I read that for you to experience a difference at least 20 grams should be put below the grip

I noticed a few things right away:

1) the faster I swing the more stable the club becomes? or the more it stays on plane...unlike before if I swung fast, my club goes crazy...but if I just take it easy it kinda' hits the ground, maybe because of the extra weight?...
I can't get over the fact that if I swing harder or faster I seem to be hitting better? I think I like this because I do not have to think of anything else, just swing fast, that's it....and it seems easier on my muscles when I swing faster, no tightness or stiffness...
any of you with experience with counter balancing know if I am right on track?

2) the ball flight seemed to be lower? could this be a direct effect of the counter balancing? or am I just seeing things? distance seemed to be the same or maybe a little longer but not my intention or concern at the moment....

overall, I had a good first experience with this and I plan to put 20gms also on my irons and see what happens

Thanks in advance for the input guys, please tell me if I am on the right track... and if some of you can share your experiences also, I would really appreciate the help and inputs!

maop,

here is kind of a leading question, but one I hope you will look at objectively: Did you notice any significant difference in how a club felt between when you swung it with a glove on and with a glove off? And felt not in the tactile sense, but in terms of it's swing weight and "stability" as you called it? Because, a glove weighs right around 25g, the same slug of mass you put in your driver. Try swinging with two or three gloves on and see if it really is a significant difference.

Look, I don't want to discourage you, because I am a big proponent of "if it works for you, then do it," but, I think that this should be tempered with objective evidence. And, objectively, a clubmaker friend of mine did this test with hundreds of golfers: he backweighted some and didn't backweight others, and asked the golfers to pick the backweighted ones. They didn't pick the one with the backweight any more often than by just chance. But, when he told a lot of them how he backweighted the club for them (when often he didn't), many of the customers would tell him how much better it felt. It is a classic placebo effect.

Moral of the story is that there is no objective evidence that shows that it is any better for woods and irons especially when taking a full swing. The change in the club total weight is much more probably the noticable effects you are feeling -- and that can be accomplished in many different ways: tungsten powder down the shaft, heavier shafts, lead tape, or these grip weights.

There is one club I think that a well-fitted backweight can make a difference, and that is the putter. But, you aren't taking full speed swings with the putter, and there are many variations on people's personal putting strokes. That is, their hands and how they apply force are significantly different than how their hands are placed on a regular club. That backweighting for some people's putters can be a huge difference, and again, for some it has no noticable difference.

Again, if you feel like it is really helping you, then, but all means don't let me stop you. Confidence plays such a huge part in the game of golf, that I want you to be as confident in your equipment as you can possibly be. But, there is no objective evidence that shows that backweighted clubs are any better than non-backweighted ones. In fact, the physics shows that clubs with extra weight near the grip can't be swung as fast, and are in fact going to be less stable than a club with weight on the end. At lot less stable? No, only a tiny amount, but it is a pretty basic physics fact. So, one more time, if you like it, great and keep it up.

I will come in and add this to the topic

Bignose's logic sounds very correct but I have to say that I have done my own testing with backweighting on a LM with impact tape and it works well. You will see an significant difference in spin, launch, and control. Note: doesn't always work for everyone as some hit better with a D2 swingweight.

Here is what you do.. Put impact tape on the club face for a guy that tends to have alittle over the top move and doesn't always hit the center correctly. Then with the same club add what you think is good weight for him - (anywhere from 12-40 grams) depending on how aggressive he is. Now see if he is swinging more on plane and hitting the center of the face at impact. In most cases it has a positive impact on their game.

Why???
I believe what is being done is you are adding extra weight to the "hinge" area of the swing. If a golfer isn't able to feel/control his hands through impact this will offer more feel and stability. The extra weight will keep his hands low and closer to the body which helps the golfer control his swing more.

Tour Players use this alot and from what I've seen in mini tour players and nationwide players its more then you think.

Look up Balanced Certified - it will give you more info on it.

Christian, just a few more questions....I hope you can help me with them....

1) where do I put the weight? at the butt's end or where the grip meets the shaft?
2) what weighting products can I use?
I think experimenting with balance certified is a bit too expensive for me right now.
if I use a high density lead tape, 1 gram per inch, to get to 20grams I should use 20 inches? Its going to be too thick, i think?

Thanks Christian!

But, it is a change in weight near the hands or just an increase in total weight that is doing it, Christian? What I mean, is, can these results you speak of be replicated by using a heavier shaft?

Again, if you think it is so significant to put extra weight in the grip, buy an extra glove (maybe the next size bigger) and swing the club with two gloves on. A glove is 25g, the same as the weight being added, and this should be exactly the same as if you put weight in the grip. If it works, then more power to you, but I think it is still largely a heavier total club weight effect, and not a counter-balancing effect.

Bignose,

I am not "trying" to disagree with you... trust me I was on your side for a long time. As a matter of fact I didn't really think the system was all that great of an idea when we brought it in the other shop a few years ago. Infact I didn't use it as part of my fitting system until I ran into a situation where I had no where else to turn on fixing a customers swing. So I picked a 48 gram weight put in on the grip and the customer started striking them SOO much more consistant. He was hitting outside center everytime and from that point on I was sold.

So you ask if overal weight works best... Yes sometimes but not always. If I was going with overal weight then you would say its OK for me to put all the weight in the head.... not so for a customer that needs more control in his hands (It helps with release and follow thru)

Now about the grip comparison. Here is what I can say that may help you understand.
Lets say I need 30 grams on a fishing line to cast the bait out where I need it to be. So I decide to take the 30 grams in 5 gram weights and spread it all over the line... Do you think the weight is center enough to get it the distance I need? How about I take all 30 grams and put it in on centered spot?
Point is I can actually feel the 30 gram weight easier then the 6 5gram weights and can control the power transfer alot better for more control.
So... A glove with weight spread all over a hand and wrist doesn't give you the feel that a good amount of weight placed in the center of the Hinge (wrist and grip) would feel. Infact I would venture to say it feels more like 5-10 grams then 20-25.

Hope this helps explain it... All I can say is no matter how its explained it really does work for me and I'm not the only one. Alot of the BIG PCS members will stand behind its theory and the results they've found.

Again I don't mean to disagree for any reason except that I have found it really is a good solution for some (NOT ALL) golfers.... but I don't expect every other club fitter out there to agree perfectly with it or me.

Hope you and your Family are Having a Wonderful Christmas.

It is somewhat unclear to me where exactly these back-weights are installed on the club.

Inside the butt of the shaft before you putt the grip on... or you can install it in the butt attached to the grip (balance certified)

Here is a link to the BC website on the top beside the logo you can see a butt cap that shows where the weight is inserted in.

OK, right at the butt-end. Thanks!

I'm not trying to be argumentative, either, Christian, I just think that the evidence for backweighting is little more than anecdote.

Here's the experiment I would like seen done: Have three sets made up to look identical, all with equal total weight, one with backweights, one with heavier shafts (more equally distributed weight) and one with weights on the head (ports or tungsten powder added), and see if one of the sets truly plays better.

Another test would be to take a customer's club and put a BalanceCertified logo or cap on the butt of the grip but actually don't change the weight, and see how many people come back with positive, negative, or neutral reviews. This would really help identify what percentage of these results are simply placebo effects.

To me, the issue is that the physics and the claims don't match. Putting more mass near a hinge should make it harder to move that hinge. As an example it is far easier to push a door open near the doorknob side than the hinge side. Maybe there are a lot of people who are hinging too fast? I don't know... The more mass near the grip also means it is harder to swing the club as fast (again, just like pushing the door). Again, maybe there are a lot of people swinging too fast? I like heavier shafts for this issue, but maybe the grip weights work for these people, too? I don't know.

EDITED to add: you know, a lot of people do tend to have overactive hands during a swing, and putting this mass right next to the hands making it harder for the hands to be overactive could achieve some very significant results. Maybe this is exactly what the goal is.... any thoughts?

Putting more mass near a hinge should also make the motion more unstable, not more stable. You can control the end of the club much more easier swinging it from the grip side than if you grabbed the head and swung the grip end around. It is an application of conservation of angular momentum -- the farther the mass is from the center of rotation, the more inertia it will have (at the same speed) and hence will tend to stay on it's path easier, ergo more stable.

Ultimately, I am very, very big on if something works then keep doing it. But, I also like to know if the effect is real, or if it is just placebo effect from a change in feel of the club which inspires greater confidence -- not that greater confidence isn't worth it too, but I'd like to know that that confidence is based on actual results or just placebo.

The best example I can give of placebo effect is the significant number of people who swear by those Q-Link or similar bracelets and necklaces. There are zero proven benefits from wearing these things -- none, nadda, zip, zilcho, zero. Just as an aside, there are a large number of touring pros who endorse/wear these things, too, so just because they are touring pros doesn't mean they are immune from placebo effects.

So, I like I said above, I think it would be helpful if some objective tests were performed. Then there would be some cold hard data to talk about rather than conjecture and anecdote.

p.s. Christian, I wish the same wonderful Christmas to you and your family as well.

busy right now but plan on responding soon but I have to say I agree with alot of what your saying.

ESPECIALLY the Q-Link. I can't stand gimmicks and have always been against them. That is why I did really try the BalanceCertified when we first got it in.

Balance certified is the best way to go...but a very inexpensive way to experiment with back-weighting is using Clevis Pins...1/2" width specifically fit perfectly in the end of a .600 shaft.....the lip of a 1/2" clevis pin is exactly .600.....make sure you wrap some tape around the end of the pin to keep it from rattling and you're golden.

You can get them in different lengths/weights for about .75 cents each at any hardware store.

From what I've seen, lower handicappers seem to experience better consistency with the drivers...I think part of the reason is they tend to grip lighter and allow the weight to initiate a pendulum effect...higher handicappers who grip harder have shown really no discernible difference on the launch monitors....

Don't forget, one of the pioneers of back weighting was Jack Nicklaus who would put a wood dowel in the butt end of his shaft and pour lead into it.

Bignose,

First I would like to apolozie for the delayed response... Been busy with all the orders lately but I seem to have some free time now. (That's a good thing)

Anyways I would like to add to the gimmick comment that I am just like you. I know guys who will say that a new Driver will give you 20 more yards and uses this EVERY SINGLE TIME they post about the "Next Best Thing". Same goes for the NEXT BEST SHAFT and plays like or Better then "other" shafts. It gets old and I think they need to just be honest about what they are doing and sell the product how it is. So when I speak on the Balance Certified its not because I have anything vested in it at all. Its because I believe in it and have seen results.

YES and YES!! I use alot of weight for higher handicap aggressive golfers who need help "dropping their hands" during the swing. It will also help the aggressive golfers with timing on their quick wrist movements.

To acheive Counter Balance without spending alot you can use butt port's (like this) and led powder . All you do is slide the butt port in the butt of the shaft (sanding it to size with a tight fit) and pour the led powder down in the port sealing it with some tape or epoxy. You should be able to get these at your local Golfsmith.

Another way to do this is if you like a midsize grip then get a standard and build the grip up with lead tap around the butt (to desired weight) before you put the grip on.

Both of these methods are good for a low inexpensive way of using Counter Balance without having something on the outside of the grip that can get in your way.

I think I see a simple solution to this dicussion. Wouldn't it be easy for those that don't believe counter-balancing works, to just try it themselves and find out? Then both sides of this would have real information to use to decide if it works, not just second hand opinion? Just my third side to all this.

Oh sure, throw common sense into the frey!