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Old May 15th, 2006, 12:26 AM
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how much does elevation change distances.

I was in a long drive qualifier this weekend in VA that was near the coast, I did some researching online and it looks like it was around 80-100 foot of altitude in that area. I normally play in an area where the average is in the 1050-1100 range. I was still hitting the ball 300+ on 3 out of the 5 drives. (one went out of the grid that cost me the win) but it didn't seem like the same ball flight as I normally get. What will that much change in elevation effect the golf ball in distance and in flight. 1000 feet of elevation change is a pretty drastic difference. I have read where they have the big long drive competitons in the mountain areas to get better distances, so I know the higher you get in elevation the further you can hit it.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 08:42 AM
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Thinner air, less resistance.
Refer to Armstrong on the Moon.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 12:19 PM
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The City of Denver is just over 5000 feet of elevation. I think they say the difference between ball flight here is about 10% compared to sea level. Here, thinner air, due to altitude, and lack of humudity make the difference.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 12:31 PM
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I haven't found a mathmatical formula. But, I've found a few items online that discuss altitude change a club distance.

Taken from GolfWeek search engine:
-At The International, in Castle Pines, CO, the players add 10%
-The Summit, the Golden Bear's 7,600yard behemoth. ...at this altitude you get about 20 percent more distance..."
-At the LPGA event in Mexico City, elevation 7400, Sorenstan said shots will carry about 15% further.

Taking the above into account, a rough estimate would be that for every 500 ft change in elevation, there is a 1.1% change in distance (I calculated the averages using Excel).
So a 200 yard shot a sea level will go:
Elevation Distance
500 ft 202 yd
1000 ft 204 yd
1500 ft 207 yd
2000 ft 209 yd
2500 ft 211 yd

To calculate for individual clubs, you need to know the course elevation where you normally play and the course elevation of where you are playing.

Now we get technical.
Example:
(A) I play in Fort Worth, TX with avg elevation of 600 ft (Round to 500 ft)
(B) Say I go play somewhere that has an elevation of about 5000 ft
Elevation Difference: 4500 ft
Elevation multiple: 9 (4500/500)
9*1.1= 9.9
100+9.9= 109.9
1.099 (Converted above to percentage)
(C) 187 (My normal 5 iron distance)
(D) 206 (187 * 1.099)

The above can be determined in this formula:
(1+(((B-A)/500))*0.011)*C = D

At 5000 feet of elevation, my 5-iron will travel about 204 yards.

(1+(((5000-500)/500))*.011)*187 = 206

If you are going to a lower elevation, the formula does not change.
For example, if my normal elevation is 5000 and I go play a course that is at 500, I get the below results

(1+(((500-5000)/500))*.011)*187 = 168
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Old May 15th, 2006, 12:43 PM
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viper1314 viper1314 is offline
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thanks man, good formula too seemed about right cause I was coming up 5-10 yards short on everyshot, not counting the 15-20 mph wind in my face.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fileygolfer
Thinner air, less resistance.
Refer to Armstrong on the Moon.
Ummmmmmmmm, I think that had more to do with the lack of gravity...
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Old May 15th, 2006, 01:23 PM
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Virgil Virgil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackblack
I haven't found a mathmatical formula. But, I've found a few items online that discuss altitude change a club distance.

Taken from GolfWeek search engine:
-At The International, in Castle Pines, CO, the players add 10%
-The Summit, the Golden Bear's 7,600yard behemoth. ...at this altitude you get about 20 percent more distance..."
-At the LPGA event in Mexico City, elevation 7400, Sorenstan said shots will carry about 15% further.

Taking the above into account, a rough estimate would be that for every 500 ft change in elevation, there is a 1.1% change in distance (I calculated the averages using Excel).
So a 200 yard shot a sea level will go:
Elevation Distance
500 ft 202 yd
1000 ft 204 yd
1500 ft 207 yd
2000 ft 209 yd
2500 ft 211 yd

To calculate for individual clubs, you need to know the course elevation where you normally play and the course elevation of where you are playing.

Now we get technical.
Example:
(A) I play in Fort Worth, TX with avg elevation of 600 ft (Round to 500 ft)
(B) Say I go play somewhere that has an elevation of about 5000 ft
Elevation Difference: 4500 ft
Elevation multiple: 9 (4500/500)
9*1.1= 9.9
100+9.9= 109.9
1.099 (Converted above to percentage)
(C) 187 (My normal 5 iron distance)
(D) 206 (187 * 1.099)

The above can be determined in this formula:
(1+(((B-A)/500))*0.011)*C = D

At 5000 feet of elevation, my 5-iron will travel about 204 yards.

(1+(((5000-500)/500))*.011)*187 = 206

If you are going to a lower elevation, the formula does not change.
For example, if my normal elevation is 5000 and I go play a course that is at 500, I get the below results

(1+(((500-5000)/500))*.011)*187 = 168
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Old May 15th, 2006, 01:30 PM
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Cernunnos Cernunnos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie
Ummmmmmmmm, I think that had more to do with the lack of gravity...
& any form or atmosphere whatsoever. therefore no resistance.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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When I played in Des Moines (955 above MSL), I'd hit my 49* pw (from an older set) 130 yards. When I would play here in Utah (4,500 above MSL), I'd hit the same club 145 yards. Thinner air and less humidity.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 10:06 PM
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OSUDan OSUDan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cernunnos
& any form or atmosphere whatsoever. therefore no resistance.
First, It was Alan Shepard that hit the golf balls on the moon. Second, the 1/6 gravity on the moon was what caused the ball to go far. Golf balls use their dimples and air resistance to "float" through the air. A golf ball hit in space will go less distance than a ball hit in air if the gravity is the same.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUDan
A golf ball hit in space will go less distance than a ball hit in air if the gravity is the same.
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it still make sound?

Sounds like the space premise is becasue the air is so thin the ball won't go as far? If that is the case, the ball would travel farther at sea level than at altitude. Thinner air means less resistance, and therefore farther flight. Right?
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Old May 16th, 2006, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it still make sound?

Sounds like the space premise is becasue the air is so thin the ball won't go as far? If that is the case, the ball would travel farther at sea level than at altitude. Thinner air means less resistance, and therefore farther flight. Right?
Warning Science content.

The space premise is because golf balls use their dimples to disturb the air they are travelling through to cause lift. Golf balls hit in space would have no air available to them to create this lift.

A golf ball travelling in space will travel on a ballistic trajectory, and only has two forces acting on it: forward and upper momentum imparted from the strike of the club, and gravity pulling it downward.

If you hit a ball in air, there are four forces acting on a ball, forward and upper momentum imparted from the strike of the club, and gravity pulling it downward. But you also have drag slowing the forward momentum, and lift helping the upper momentum. Golf balls are designed to impart lift while reducing drag in different ways, that is why there are so many dimple patterns out there. I am saying that the lift created is more beneficial to the forward flight of the ball than the drag decreases the forward flight. This can be proven by hitting a solid ball with no dimples, and hitting a dimpled ball under the same conditions. The dimpled ball will fly farther every time.

The air is thicker(more dense) at sea level, that is why a ball doesn't go as far as it would at a higher altitude with thinner air. But we are talking about the difference between space(vacuum) and air.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 03:29 PM
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Fileygolfer Fileygolfer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUDan
First, It was Alan Shepard that hit the golf balls on the moon. Second, the 1/6 gravity on the moon was what caused the ball to go far. Golf balls use their dimples and air resistance to "float" through the air. A golf ball hit in space will go less distance than a ball hit in air if the gravity is the same.
Sorry, it was Alan Shepard, my mistake.
But to go to the original post, the reference to the moon was to show the lack of air as a example and not a scientific lesson.

A golf ball needs back spin to climb and the more resistance the more spin, so two balls hit the same at different altitudes will reach the apex of there flights at different lengths so:- Thinner Air = Longer flight.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 11:07 AM
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Virgil Virgil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUDan
Warning Science content.

The space premise is because golf balls use their dimples to disturb the air they are travelling through to cause lift. Golf balls hit in space would have no air available to them to create this lift.

A golf ball travelling in space will travel on a ballistic trajectory, and only has two forces acting on it: forward and upper momentum imparted from the strike of the club, and gravity pulling it downward.

If you hit a ball in air, there are four forces acting on a ball, forward and upper momentum imparted from the strike of the club, and gravity pulling it downward. But you also have drag slowing the forward momentum, and lift helping the upper momentum. Golf balls are designed to impart lift while reducing drag in different ways, that is why there are so many dimple patterns out there. I am saying that the lift created is more beneficial to the forward flight of the ball than the drag decreases the forward flight. This can be proven by hitting a solid ball with no dimples, and hitting a dimpled ball under the same conditions. The dimpled ball will fly farther every time.

The air is thicker(more dense) at sea level, that is why a ball doesn't go as far as it would at a higher altitude with thinner air. But we are talking about the difference between space(vacuum) and air.
I guess I have never assessed the make-up of "air" in space. I figured there was "air" of some kind, just not oxygen, and didn't realize space is a vacuum. Hmm!?!?

Also, I thought the dimples allow a ball to fly straight, where a non-dimpled ball would fly like a knuckle ball.
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