Last Sunday my friend and partner was having an awesome round- at a difficult course. The 18th is a par 5 dogleg left around a huge lake. To the right are yards protected by OB markers. He smashed his drive perfect to give himself about 220 to the green. He went right on his approach. When we drove up to his ball we noticed it about an inch or two in bounds- as we both got on our knees from each stake to line it up.
Now, the problem was-there was a white line painted on the ground from stake to stake- The line came out further toward the course (almost like a half-moon from stake to stake) and had his ball 3 feet out of bounds.
He argued that "you go by the stakes, not the line!" I looked on the scorecard and all it says is "OB is defined by white stakes and white lines." Which doesn't help.
I had no answer, so I tended to let it go. He birdied the hole to shoot 73. Possibly the finest round of his life. So I feel fine about agreeing with him as he was on cloud nine.
Now, behind his back and later, what do all think??
Last edited by LordEmery : July 6th, 2006 at 02:46 PM.
I hate to be a buzz kill for your buddy, but he broke the rules here. Here is the definition of "out of bounds" in the rules: (note the part in red)
Out of Bounds
“Out of bounds’’ is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.
When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points of the stakes or fence posts at ground level excluding angled supports.
Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings, are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed.
When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds.
The out of bounds line extends vertically upwards and downwards.
A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds.
A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.
And he should go to that course and chew out the superintendent! Seriously though, rules are rules and he was OB, but how hard is it to put some string between markers and just paint over the string to get a straight line? That's how we line baseball and softball fields all the time.
And he should go to that course and chew out the superintendent! Seriously though, rules are rules and he was OB, but how hard is it to put some string between markers and just paint over the string to get a straight line? That's how we line baseball and softball fields all the time.
I think that this was the aggravation - he WAS in bounds. The only reason he wasn't, by the rules Golfzinnut explained, was only because the Einsteins that spray painted the ground did it so haphazardly it MADE his ball OB.
When there are stakes, the spay paint wasn't even necessary to begin with, another issue.
I would say under these circumstances, no way **** on the OB.
Last edited by leaguegolf : July 6th, 2006 at 08:32 PM.
Reason: Inappropriate Comment
The rule specifically states that white stakes and white lines are used to define OB. Fair or not, the white line still defined the course boundary. OB is OB no matter how crooked the line may be.
league is right (now and then he gets lucky), it was out.
Last edited by leaguegolf : July 6th, 2006 at 10:13 PM.
I've never heard of or seen OB marked by both stakes andlines. It's usually one or the other. I would have to raise this question with the course super about the lines being crooked though. That's why white stakes are most common, so there's no doubt as to where the line is.
I'll bet if this course ever held a state tournament or tournament other than a local tournament, those lines would be history. Simp
I've never heard of or seen OB marked by both stakes andlines. It's usually one or the other. I would have to raise this question with the course super about the lines being crooked though. That's why white stakes are most common, so there's no doubt as to where the line is.
I'll bet if this course ever held a state tournament or tournament other than a local tournament, those lines would be history. Simp
Actually, the course is the championship Chalet Hills and is quite prestigeous. We play there about 10 times per year. Go to chaletgolf.com. and you'll see. You can get to a picture of the 18th hole. The picture is taken from the first 100 yards of the fairway and you can see the green across the water. The spot in question is right between the house and the large bush where it is marked poorly OB.
Another question, if I call the course and ask and he says that it's our fault, I would say NO OB, does he still have a responsibility to play by the USGA rules or by what the course tells him (course rules)?
(while there, you might want to check out the other pictures)
And he should go to that course and chew out the superintendent! Seriously though, rules are rules and he was OB, but how hard is it to put some string between markers and just paint over the string to get a straight line? That's how we line baseball and softball fields all the time.
A lot harder than you'd think. Imagine running a line around the entire perimeter of a golf course? We're talking 5 miles or more in some cases...then walking it off and painting the lines once every two weeks or sometimes less if it rains, and you can fill in the rest of the picture.
Actually, the course is the championship Chalet Hills and is quite prestigeous. We play there about 10 times per year. Go to chaletgolf.com. and you'll see. You can get to a picture of the 18th hole. The picture is taken from the first 100 yards of the fairway and you can see the green across the water. The spot in question is right between the house and the large bush where it is marked poorly OB.
Another question, if I call the course and ask and he says that it's our fault, I would say NO OB, does he still have a responsibility to play by the USGA rules or by what the course tells him (course rules)?
(while there, you might want to check out the other pictures)
The course rules and the USGA rules are in agreement on this one - the ball was, according to both rules, OB.
A lot harder than you'd think. Imagine running a line around the entire perimeter of a golf course? We're talking 5 miles or more in some cases...then walking it off and painting the lines once every two weeks or sometimes less if it rains, and you can fill in the rest of the picture.
I understand that, but the only way I could see the stakes AND a line is if there is a really tough read on where OB begins. Then, if you are going to pick that spot to line, at least get it right! I think we both agree, stlcard25, that the entire course isn't lined, and you are correct in stating that would be quite an undertaking. Errors would be expected. But rare is the course with OB painted on the ground, and if it is, it's in one of those areas where lots of people go OB. Therefore, care should be taken in lining that area. Notwithstanding, if the line is there regardless how crooked it is and regardless that if the stakes are used it's not OB, the line takes precedent and it IS in fact OB. I'd still take it up with the super to fix that so no one else has that same issue.
Actually, the course is the championship Chalet Hills and is quite prestigeous. We play there about 10 times per year. Go to chaletgolf.com. and you'll see. You can get to a picture of the 18th hole. The picture is taken from the first 100 yards of the fairway and you can see the green across the water. The spot in question is right between the house and the large bush where it is marked poorly OB.
Another question, if I call the course and ask and he says that it's our fault, I would say NO OB, does he still have a responsibility to play by the USGA rules or by what the course tells him (course rules)?
(while there, you might want to check out the other pictures)
i know in the rules this states out of bounds, but play the rules within your group on this occasion, you let him off and let him play the shot, then let him have the score. i know officially this is OB but on this occasion it was due to a badly marked line, and you let him off anyway. i know rules are rule's but this time i think common sense counted if you say the line extended 3 feet inbounds.
The Rules of Golf don't always equate to "common sense."
BTW.......Agreeing to "let him off" is a violation of the Rules of Golf.
Rule 1-3 Agreement to Waive Rules Players must not agree to exclude the operation of any Rule or to waive any penalty incurred.
The penalty for breach of Rule 1-3:
Disqualification of both sides in match play.
Disqualification of competitors concerned in stroke play.
I can just hear the comments I would get if I complained to my playing partners that the line was crooked........
Me: "Hey, this OB line is crooked! You should let me off on this one!"
Partner 1: "So was your shot. The tee box is back that way!"
Partner 2: "Play it however you want. Just make sure your signature is legible on the scorecard when we're finished.
Partner 3: "The only thing I'm "waiving" here is your Out of Bounds back to the tee box!
Of course we'd all be laughing about it on the next tee!
who's gonna disqualify you during a quiet round? . i know that's following the professional (USGA) golf rules, but is it really OB if it was inside the 2 stake's?, and if i read correctly the line was coming 3ft inside the stake's, me personally id give it as a fair call. agreeing to let him off might not be a violation here, as i cannot see how it is OB, personally i would follow the stakes and dont care where the line goes. ''OB is defined by white stakes and white lines'' this is what was noted on the scorecard, so that says to me that the line and stakes should be dead inline, which inturn says it was a badly drawn line and not OB.
The tone of this conversation is interesting. Here's what it comes down to -- what score is he going to post? I've personally got no problems with someone posting a lower score than he shot. Shoot an 85 and you wanna call it an 80 in the computer -- fine by me.
But the debate over the proper application of the rules is really ridiculous. If he was on the wrong side of the white line, everyone here fully understands that he was OB! But what to do about it. The rules say its a 2-stroke penalty. Period. Debate over.
Its the same thing as grounding your club in a hazard or improving your lie when you play by yourself. Also the same as hitting a mulligan on the first (or any) tee. Does anyone care? Nope. Are you breaking the rules? Yep.
The tone of this conversation is interesting. Here's what it comes down to -- what score is he going to post? I've personally got no problems with someone posting a lower score than he shot. Shoot an 85 and you wanna call it an 80 in the computer -- fine by me.
But the debate over the proper application of the rules is really ridiculous. If he was on the wrong side of the white line, everyone here fully understands that he was OB! But what to do about it. The rules say its a 2-stroke penalty. Period. Debate over.
Its the same thing as grounding your club in a hazard or improving your lie when you play by yourself. Also the same as hitting a mulligan on the first (or any) tee. Does anyone care? Nope. Are you breaking the rules? Yep.
yes it is OB when its over the line, but in this case the line was a big 3ft into the course, that's what the argument is about at the end of the day. to me i wouldnt mind OB or not as ive stopped playing competitive golf and now play for the fun of it, when i was shooting low 70's i might of questioned it, but now it wouldnt worry me too much as i have as much fun shooting 91 as i do when i shoot 71, so now i would of just done the right thing, which was probably to call it OB. but some of these lines have to be questioned, and if the fella had a great day then the score is his (just for the satisfaction). he was only having a day out with his mate and wasnt playing competitive golf at augusta.
July 6th, 2006, 02:41 PM
Seriously though, rules are rules and he was OB, but how hard is it to put some string between markers and just paint over the string to get a straight line? That's how we line baseball and softball fields all the time.
Simp
. i know that's following the professional (USGA) golf rules, but is it really OB if it was inside the 2 stake's?, and if i read correctly the line was coming 3ft inside the stake's, me personally id give it as a fair call. agreeing to let him off might not be a violation here, as i cannot see how it is OB, personally i would follow the stakes and dont care where the line goes. ''OB is defined by white stakes and white lines'' this is what was noted on the scorecard, so that says to me that the line and stakes should be dead inline, which inturn says it was a badly drawn line and not OB.
back to the tee box! 
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