Did anyone see Mark Rolfing's first "Golf in Hawaii" on the Golf Channel? At the end of the show, he usually talks about what is right with the game. This time he spoke about what is wrong with the game. He mentioned that there are very few talented "up-an-comers" on the PGA Tour. Where are the twenty-somethings? He mentioned that for every person that takes up the game, one drops out. I believe he made a valid argument by stating that rounds take too long, it costs too much to play a decent course, and course designers are making the courses too difficult.
In my opinion, golf courses do try to price peopole out of playing. As a resident in Florida, I see it everywhere. The resort courses are one thing, and I believe that the occasional upscale daily fee is fine. However, some of the courses that are not stellar by any means and are on the border of being called a goat ranch charge ridiculous prices. Golf is a game that everyone should be given the opportunity to enjoy. My God, the cost of equipment alone is enough to scare most people away. Now tack on $50-$85 for a decent course that is in "good" condition, and tee times that are so bunched together on the weekends, making a 5 hour round the norm rather than the exception; it's no wonder the game's growth is floundering.
I would love to hear what you think. I'll get down off the soap box and give someone else a turn.
There is really nothing new about any of the factors you cite as pushing people away from the game. All have been bandied about for as long as I can remember. This may differ by region, but here in Michigan there is somewhat of a glut of courses and prices are lower than ever when taking inflation into account. Starter sets are as inexpensive as ever, too (inflation adjusted). I think what we're seeing is the other side of the Tiger/golf boom bubble. I'd also guess that there are more quality American golfers coming up now than at any time in the past... why they're not making much of a splash yet on the Tour is anyone's guess.
My dad and I found a course about 25 mins away. Great condition, but not the most interesting course. But ya know, the fairways are fair, the rough isn't a jungle, the greens are solid, and the tee boxes are smooth. Public too! My dad and I pay $24 with carts to play 18.
As a Chicago resident, I agree with and understand what is being said here. It is virtually impossible to find a course for less that $50 (riding) and these are nothing special courses with poor fairways and tee boxes. Granted the greens may be decent, but if you can't get there from good lies it means nothing.
Courses that I played 2-3 years ago have incresed their fees almost 25%, while making no improvements.
Others are reaching $65-$80 range and the average golfer can't afford that. I suppose they are trying to push out the undesirables but it just isn't working. There tends to be a large number of people trying to play the games with little or no skills that play on the course without learning to hit on a range first, thus the 5+ hour rounds. Even when courses are pushing to 10 minute tee intervals it still occurs.
So what is the answer?
I used to have a permanent tee time at a very nice course ($52 weekend) on Sunday morning at 5:50am. This was necessary to avoid the 5 hour round. A 3 1/2 hour round was great although I still had a 45 minute drive and had to get up at 4:15, which killed my Saturday night. Couldn't keep doing it, thus my rant!
They do, but no one needs to go out and spent $400 on a driver if they don't want to, but as far as greens fees goes, if you want to play your stuck paying it. And witht he 5+ hour rounds, it all leads back to the courses.
They do, but no one needs to go out and spent $400 on a driver if they don't want to, but as far as greens fees goes, if you want to play your stuck paying it. And witht he 5+ hour rounds, it all leads back to the courses.
The Chicago area must be one of the more expensive areas for golf. I've heard similar stories from some of our other members from around there.
Start with the end goal in mind and work backwords to where we are. I think we (casual/amateur golfers) want a shorter round in the neighborhood of 3.5 hours that is satisfying and challenging and reasonably priced.
I think we should trim some golf courses down to 12 holes and let the owners sell the land that they no longer need. This would give the golf course owners some much needed cash and reduce the maintenance expenses of the course and thus would help reduce the cost of a round.
Please note that not all courses should cut down to 12, but more than 50% should. Just my idea. I think more women would play if the round was reduced from 18 to 12.
As for the 20 something's not doing too well. I do not have an answer except we need to reduce the cost of playing the game. My 12 hole idea may do that to some extent. That indirectly will help expand the base of players and hopefully improve our american players.
I'd be curious about everyone's solutions to mark rolfing's list.
I live near Augusta, GA - the golf is highly affordable around here. Most golf courses are $20-35 with cart, and even the pricey ones that you can get on are under $50 weekdays - all $5-8 more weekends.
As for the twenty-somethings - there is something called the all-exempt tour that has made it more and more difficult for the young golfers to break in and make their marks. Tournament entry is based on performance over the past 3 years. I look at Vaughn Taylor - he makes top 10's, won twice, and performs well on tough courses - but because he still has just 2 years on tour his points level will not let him crack the top 50. Therefore he can rarely play in World events and is just getting his first crack at the majors. Next year he will likely get there, but he will also get to age 30 and won't be a 'young buck' anymore. It is so hard to break into the tour, and to displace those top 50 guys that get the choice to play in the rich events, that not many can anymore before their late 20's or 30's. The ability is there, the opportunity is limited.
Reducing golf courses to 12 holes is ridiculous and will never happen nor should it - golf is an 18 hole game.
One of the main reasons the costs keep going up on public courses is insurance. Their premiums are going through the roof and the only way for the courses to keep up is to raise the rates. Also, we as golfers want nice courses and it cost a lot of money to maintain and to continually improve the course.
As far as the 5 hour round goes - there are far too many people who are on the course that can't break 110. I think that's a big reason for slow rounds. What do ya do about that? Do ya have a handicap minimun during certain hours??? I don't know, but I don't think the problem's gonna get solved anytime soon. Golf is continuing to grow as a sport so the way I see it we're gonna be seeing more lousy golfers taking up space and longer rounds in the future.
Start with the end goal in mind and work backwords to where we are. I think we (casual/amateur golfers) want a shorter round in the neighborhood of 3.5 hours that is satisfying and challenging and reasonably priced.
I think we should trim some golf courses down to 12 holes and let the owners sell the land that they no longer need. This would give the golf course owners some much needed cash and reduce the maintenance expenses of the course and thus would help reduce the cost of a round.
Please note that not all courses should cut down to 12, but more than 50% should. Just my idea. I think more women would play if the round was reduced from 18 to 12.
As for the 20 something's not doing too well. I do not have an answer except we need to reduce the cost of playing the game. My 12 hole idea may do that to some extent. That indirectly will help expand the base of players and hopefully improve our american players.
I'd be curious about everyone's solutions to mark rolfing's list.
Move to Indonesia...beautiful courses, cheap greens fees, caddies, enough courses so that no one course is too crowded (I round in 2-3 hours usually walking)...
Reducing golf courses to 12 holes is ridiculous and will never happen nor should it - golf is an 18 hole game.
One of the main reasons the costs keep going up on public courses is insurance. Their premiums are going through the roof and the only way for the courses to keep up is to raise the rates. Also, we as golfers want nice courses and it cost a lot of money to maintain and to continually improve the course.
As far as the 5 hour round goes - there are far too many people who are on the course that can't break 110. I think that's a big reason for slow rounds. What do ya do about that? Do ya have a handicap minimun during certain hours??? I don't know, but I don't think the problem's gonna get solved anytime soon. Golf is continuing to grow as a sport so the way I see it we're gonna be seeing more lousy golfers taking up space and longer rounds in the future.
It's just an idea...not sure it is "rediculous". The Scotts decided on 18 holes because that's how many shots of scotch it took to finish the bottle. So 18 is not a magic number, but more a historic number. I am only suggesting the 18 into 12 holes for courses that want to be geared to the casual golfer. The handicap fanatics and golfaholics (I am one of them) would still have 18 hole courses to choose from.
I played in Ireland and Scotland in the past 5 years and they play under 4 hours every time. There are small things that they do (tee box right next to green as an example, no cart person, etc.) and the Scotts also play with a "keep going" attitude. I think they instill this into the players. It is just hard to change the mindset, once we have gone to the "slow-side".
By the way, golf is not growing anymore and really hasn't due to the "Tiger" effect. Mark Rohlfing is not the only one pointing to the problems that exist in trying to grow the sport. I wonder if the sport is for the "masses" anyway.
As far as the 5 hour round goes - there are far too many people who are on the course that can't break 110. I think that's a big reason for slow rounds. What do ya do about that? Do ya have a handicap minimun during certain hours??? I don't know, but I don't think the problem's gonna get solved anytime soon. Golf is continuing to grow as a sport so the way I see it we're gonna be seeing more lousy golfers taking up space and longer rounds in the future.
We've beat this horse to death before in other threads, and the blame for long rounds doesn't lie with poor playing, it lies with poor etiquette. I've been behind guys hitting 300 yard drives and playing well, but they don't understand "ready golf". They spend so much time lining up putts and waggling over drives it makes Ben Crane look like Speedy Gonzales. I've also been behind guys so old they first played with Old Tom, and they can't hit it over 140 yards at a time. I watch them play Army golf - left, right, left. Yet they manage to keep up with the group ahead and in front of us. Because they understand etiquette, and they know how to play "ready golf".
I live about an hour south of Tampa. Yes, this time of year prices go up thanks to all the winter visitors. But there are still several courses you can play for less than $40. I played yesterday with my business partner for $39 each, and finished in 3 hours, even though the course was quite busy. Today I drove a little over an hour up to Lakeland, which is only 30-45 minutes east of Tampa. We played a nice municipal course, Cleveland Heights, for $24 each. We played in just under 4 hours. This course hosts Futures Tour events, so it's not a dump. There are 3 or 4 other course in the Lakeland area that are challenging and in good shape for under $30.
So what does it mean? Don't judge the whole country by your region. For every overcrowded, expensive goat track in your city there's probably 2 well-maintained, well-managed, affordable courses somewhere else.
A good start would be marshalls that actually do something to speed up play. All the ones I see just ride around and collect golf ball and make small talk with the golfers. They are just scared to say anything to the slow players. I always say it is ok to be bad at golf but not to be slow. Heck when I was bad I was faster than I am now.
December 21st, 2006, 02:20 PM
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