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Smoothie, does Torrey Pines really check handicap cards???

The only time I have ever heard of such a thing, was when a player went to Scotland, and wanted to play the back tees at one of the championship courses. He had to hit a tee shot on the first tee, with the club secretary watching, to prove he had the skill level to play the back tees. Also, have heard of US golfers bringing a letter from their home course professional to Scotland, to prove that they are serious players.

I disagree with checking handicaps for play. As we all know, handicap is NOT an indicator of speed of play. My wife would be one that can play to about a 20 but she will do in in 3 1/2 hours. One of the things I drilled into her when she was learning was how to play quickly without rushing around the course. On the other hand, one of my fellow professionals can easily take 4 1/2 hours to shoot his 80. It all boils down to being ready to hit when it is your turn, not the handicap. Of course all of this assumes that one is NOT a beginning golfer as they are more worried about hitting the ball rather than thinking about where the next tee is when placing their bag or parking their car.

IMO Handicaps should only help determine which tees you play from. Pace of play is a much more important issue. I'd much rather play behind the golfer that shoots a fast 100+ than behind the golfer that shoots a 5 hour 76.

Here in Southeast Michigan many new courses have opened in the last 5 years. Too many! The average price of these "new courses" is $60-$85 for 18 holes. Most have a mandatory cart policy and many of those that don't, you don't want to walk anyway. The 400 to 500 yard walk from the green to the next tee-box is a killer when it happens about every third hole. These high end courses sprang up quickly and now a few years later are struggling to find golfers. Many have cut their prices (course maintainance has dramatically suffered) or offer discount coupons. I believe the number of players here has remained constant, or increased slightly, but with so many courses to choose from individual course play has declined.

There are none of them around here thank goodness, but I love the courses that make you ride and then force you to stay on a cartpath 30 yards off the edge of the fairway. IMO, carts slow play more than speed it up in many cases. People all drive to one ball, one person hits, then to the next ball, then that person hits, etc. When I have someone with me in a cart one of us is dropped off at out ball and the other goes to his. That way we are ready to hit in a timely fashion.

stlcard_25, that is absolutely my #1 golfing facility pet peeve. :mad: They'll get my business once and then only if I don't have an immediate option. You usually wind up doing more walking going back & forth to the cart, while paying for the "privilege".

Well greenguy, I guess we disagree on this one. As you know our area & state is blessed with one of the highest number of golf courses per capita in the world. Until that changes, with all due respect to those of you whose livings depend upon it, I don't really care about their profit margins.

We don't disagree. Right now the customer is getting value and that's good. You said 'Until that changes' and that is already starting to change. Your right - it's not at all important to a customer what the margins are at a particualar course. The point is that in the near future there will be less courses available to play because of supply and demand. The result of razor thin margins and budget cuts in the course operations means fewer courses can afford to stay in business and then the property is sold to a developer, because housing is in more demand than golf courses. With fewer courses, prices on the courses that make it through the attrition will start to raise prices over time. Prices haven't gone up -in fact right now it's the opposite. But more courses have either closed, or will close within the next 2 years. Not saying this is 'good' or 'bad' necessarily, but the prices that you pay now by having almost unlimited choices to you is not going to last. So yes, right now the consumer is getting a great deal, but the downside, is that longer term, expect prices to go back up in the next 5 or so years as fewer courses are operating and the courses that remain will seek to make up for the lost revenue during this time will be able to raise prices, possibly even more than they would have normally because they need to make up for lost time.

I'm a consumer too - the courses that I pay to play (just like everyone else) haven't raised their prices in 5 years and in some cases, they have actually lowered their prices. That's 'good', but it won't last much longer, and that's the downside I am referring to of having too much competition.