golfrewind.com

I was reading the an article about Golf in US By Tim McDonald, National Golf Editor in www.travelgolf.com He says that independent golf research firms like Golf Research Group and Pellucid say the number of golfers in the U.S. is sliding downhill while NGF and other research alliances with ties to the golf establishment say the opposite. Both quote studies, surveys to back their stand.

In fact Pellucid claims the NGF is "fudging" the numbers to make it look like more people are playing the game than actually are. While NGF says there surveys are solid.

All this seems very childish to me What say folks?

What I say is that the courses I play have never been more filled with golfers--male, female, young, and old. Starting times are available, but the choice spots go earlier and earlier. I do think that some upscale courses have priced themselves out of consideration for regular weekly or bi-weekly play, but there are plenty of golfers out there looking for a good, reasonably priced place to test their skills.

From my very unscientific surveys based on "what I see with my eyes," I would say there are more golfers these days. I think with the popularity of Tiger Woods, a lot of people have taken the game up in recent years.

I haven't seen any noticable dropoff, but I play strictly during the week, early afternoon. The economy could have something to do with it. But if it's true, less golfers = more available tee times, fewer > 4 hour rounds, more competition for remaining golfers = lower prices/more deals. Sounds good to me. Does anyone see a downside ?

I can say without a doubt based on solid numbers that our rounds have gone up each of the last 5 years. Since it is my job, I can also say that my Corporate outings have also gone up each year. With that being said, I can also say that one of our sister courses here has seen their rounds go down.

I think the overall rounds/course have decreased due to the # of new courses. Also, the NGF relys on MEMBER surveys which leave out the non-NGF courses (we are not members of the NGF) and I think the NGF estimates these numbers.

I also think the golfers are looking harder for value, especially in areas such as mine where there are roughly 35 courses within 30 mins open to the public. One funny observation is the fact that a couple of the area courses lowered their rates to well below the average to go with their below average conditions and they still are not packed so the cheapest price doesn't necessarily equal the best value. We are busy all day everyday due to competitive pricing and, more importantly, great conditions.

None here

I play both weekday and weekend rounds and I know there are definately more golfers than there used to be. As valegout mentioned, more women and juniors then I ever remember. We have over 130 courses within an hours drive from downtown, and most courses are solidly booked at prime time all the time. This is good for the game as long as the golf course owner doesnt see only $$$ and keeps playing costs resonable.

Yes, there is a downside. Lower prices make it far more difficult for courses to make $$. Margins here in MI are razor thin - most courses in my area struggle to make money on an operational basis. Owners typically only make money when they sell the property to a developer - which means fewer courses.

To make a long story short and tying this in with previous posters, play this year on most courses are up slightly, but the number of golfers that play haven't really significantly changed since 1990 - about 25 million. Problem is the number of public courses available have just gone off the chart - in MI there are simply too many courses chasing enough golfers to make economic sense and yes, some courses, (including mine) have lowered their fees, but still haven't had enough of an increase in play to offset the difference of the lower price. What has to happen is for more and more courses have to close to reach the right balance. I don't see the number of golfers increasing enough to keep some courses in business. And some of these courses that are on the verge of going under range from goat ranches to some of the most beautiful courses you could play. It's a difficult dilema that only will be solved by limiting the number of courses out there.

Yesterday, I took a rare day off to move my oldest kid to her college dorm (what a zoo!). I drove by about 5-6 courses and only one had the parking lot with enough cars to make being open worthwhile. One course had absolutely no one on it and it was 9:30 on a very nice morning when I drove by it. And it's a beautiful course. For those that are seeing more play out there, it might be that the people are all trying to get the same times and only gives the appearance of being busy. Most courses have a hard time selling certain tee times - and every open tee time is lost revenue and probably the difference between making enough $$ to justify the investment and not being able to operate profitably.

DITTO THAT! The public courses in my area (Dallas/Ft Worth "Metromess") are CHOCK FULL every weekend, :mad: finally driving me to complete frustration, and joining a private club to escape the masses.

In fact - the main driving range I used to frequent is also full of new players - I've never seen so many people crowding the clubhouse, chipping/putting area, driving range, etc. in my LIFE. A lot more women too! :allmoods:

Prime time tee times (weekend mornings) is the key. Can't speak for what's happening in TX, but don't confuse what is happening during prime times and extrapolate that courses must be doing well financially. In MI, courses still are packed on weekend mornings, but you would have little trouble playing later in the afternoon (1:00 or later) on the vast majority of courses. I really don't think there has been a significant increase in the #of golfers. Yes, there might be more women and jr's starting to play, but there are nearly the same number leaving the game for some reason - and that trend has been in place since about 1990.

Are the sister courses' in the same condition as your course? When people call my course, the first question is how much is it, followed by 'we'll get back with you'. People are definitely price shopping - yes the conditions are important, but price is #1 in my area. There are nicer courses than mine within 15 min of here and they struggle more than the middle of the road courses like mine. One course nearby can only be described nicely as the worst conditioned course in the area, but the price is so low, their rounds are easily the highest in this county and are probably making more $$ than any of us. At least as far as I can see, price trumps conditions here in Mid MI.

Your course is would be more accurately described as a resort type course isn't it? Some resort courses in Northern MI have gone belly up or have had to seek bankruptcy protection. Guess it really depends on your location in the country. But glad to hear your course is doing well

Here in my corner of Pennsylvania, golf seems to be dropping off a bit right now. The economy here is not as good and the weather has been even worse. I have noticed the dropoff while working the past few years. Three or four years ago, the course was filling up at daylight and even getting out to mow greens early resulted in waits to mow. Any mowing in the late morning such as fairways, etc. was really tough going and I spent a lot of time waiting for people to clear out enough to finish what I am doing. In the past two years, no one gets out before 7 AM really, waiting to mow greens is a thing of the past, and even our fairway mowers don't have to wait a lot anymore. Other courses in the area seem less busy when I play there too.

Four years ago, I was always concerned about getting the crew out at 6:00 am sharp. We still start then, but no doubt we are far less concerned about having play catch up to us. We've even started mowing collars and approaches in the pm (so we don't have to use buckets - its faster, cleaner, and by putting the clippings back it increases fertility by about 20%- because play is so sparse that we can work around play with no problem. Play has decreased every year since 2000. This year is no exception for us, but I am hearing that some courses in the area have had a small pick up in play for the first time since 2000.

There are a couple of courses around here like that, too. After noon, you can play 18 holes for $20 with a cart at this one shabby course. On the other hand, a very well maintained course around here has a twilight rate of $18 after 3:30 pm and I'd rather play that rate everytime even though I won't finish 18 holes.

I hear ya there greenguy. We have always started at 6 am as well and if we weren't out there pronto we'd end up having problems with mowing the greens on 1, 2, and 3 before we caught up. But this year I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to wait before mowing a green in the morning. As for the approaches, we started mowing them in the morning along with our regular tee mowing last year. I wish we'd go back. It was SO much quicker before with simply mowing tees in the morning and then approaches in the afternoon without worrying about emptying buckets and using our slow tee mowers.

I have been noticing that some courses are allowing 5 somes more and more. Should courses allow only players of a certain handicap to play? For example, to play Torrey Pines you need to be a 10 handicap or lower.