golfrewind.com

Sorry for the length. I did not want this to be the ussual "What clubs should I buy for $200?" and I wanted to show I have done some homework before asking.

While this is my first post, I have been lurking around getting an idea for the board and sucking up information like a sponge. A little about me before I get to my questions. I have played about 30 times in the past, although most of them at least four years ago. I really enjoy the game and have made a commitment to play a lot more starting next year. I had owned a set of off brand clubs I bought from Play it Again Sports, but I have not had them in three years. I am 6'4, and about 210. One thing about me is if I buy something I am very meticulous and keep it for a while. I will not be buying new clubs every year for the thrill of it.

So I want to start building my bag with a set of irons. I cannot spend $500-$700 or more on a set of irons when I am going to have so much other stuff to purchase as well. However, I do not want a set in a box from "XYZ" for $200 because it seems there is not much quality there. My research bought me upon sotes such as Diamond Tour Golf, Giga-Golf, Pinemeadow golf, and Custom Golf Sales. One of the main reasons I was thinking about going with one of these sites is the price seems pretty decent for a set of irons that you can get to custom length, lie, choice of shaft, grip, and one place will even spine align the shafts for you. With my height and wrist to floor measurmnts, all the online sites suggest a +1"-+2" longer shaft. That is hard to find on ebay. Here are a couple sets that caught my eye:

Grand Hawk Combo Set 3-PW RH Golf Clubs

CustomGolfSales.com - Custom Building - Tech Power Irons - Mixed Set

Can any one please offer any insight to these sets or websites. Does one stand out more than the other.

Also, any shaft recommendations would be helpful as well. Feel free to PM me if you do not want to post your response here.

Thanks in advance for any input, and the knowledge I have all ready gotten from lurking and reading old post.

The issue with those sites is that they are clone marketers. There are two kinds of companies that sell club heads (not a whole iron like the big OEMS), the original component markers and the cloners. The original component makers design their own clubheads, have them manufactured in the same foundries as the big OEM, and generally provide a very quality product. The cloners look at what the OEMs are selling, "design" a clubhead by just ripping off the design from the big OEM, and usually the color/marking scheme too, have their clubheads made in the cheapest possible place, and generally provide a very low quality product.

Despite what you consider your quality per dollar budget to be (that is, if you want to buy cheaper clubs with the fore knowledge that they aren't going to have much re-sale value later), the clone clubs are at their very heart dishonest. Someone, probably many someones, worked very hard to design the clubhead for the company that employs them. Someone programmed the computer models to virtually test the clubhead, someone made numerous prototypes in the workshop to demo them, someone (probably a tour pro) was paid to come and test the clubhead design out, maybe even put it into play on the tour. From conception to production, this is a process that is going to take at least 12 months, probably closer to 24 months.

And what does the cloner do? Completely rip off all those people who worked hard to design that club. Let's call it what it is: stealing. They steal the design, the look, everything they can.

All the cloner does is slap some pieces together, paint it so it looks like the big OEMs and ship it out. Do you think that they have the same strict manufacturing? Do you think that they care if the weight distribution in the clubs is exactly right? Do you think that they care if every head in a set is uniform? If they did, they wouldn't be able to bring the very cheap prices they offer. Cloned clubs are made as cheaply as possible, and, like a lot of things in life, you get what you pay for. What you will end up with is a set with no consistency -- the 5 iron may launch high, but the 6 iron launch low because of how cheaply made they are. There are stories all over this site about cloned drivers caving in or otherwise breaking. If you are looking to take your game to any kind of good level, the cloned clubs will hold you back some. That's not to say you can't play with them -- but they will hold you back at least somewhat because their poor quality. Like anything, there is a spectrum of manufacturers here. There are some cloner companies that are better than others. Not every cloned clubhead is going to be rubbish, but they are not going to be manufactured to the same standards as the quality manufacturers.

I can thoroughly understand wanting to save money. But, there are legit methods of accomplishing that. Firstly, you can patronize the original component makers. These are the companies that do their own work, not just rip off other companies. Companies like Wishon, Bang golf, SMT, Maltby, Alpha, Infinity, etc. A good local clubmaker can do all personal adjustments you want, the length, lie, loft, and design a set for your swing. And, the cost really isn't too much higher than the sets you were looking at. Also, the original components are made in the same foundries as the OEMs, manufactured with the same tight standards, in other words, they are the same quality equipment. That's not to say that mistakes won't happen, because they will. Even the OEMs have a certain percentage of rubbish heads that come out of their manufacturing facilities -- it's impossible for that to be zero -- but the percentage from the quality manufacturers are much, much lower than the cheap manufacturers the cloners use.

One of this website's sponsors, Solid Rock Golf ( Solid Rock Golf | Building Your Game On A Solid Foundation ) is very good. They assemble original component clubs. Look at their website, under built clubs -- iron sets. There are original component sets there that start at $149. Not clone sets, but originals. The owner, Christian, will work with you to try to bring you exactly what you want.

So, original components are one way in which to save money.

Another way is to buy used. You can always buy a used set and then take them to your local clubmaker and have the adjustments done on them. They can install shaft extenders if you need some extra length -- after buying a used set you are probably going to want to re-grip them anyway. Websites such as globalgolf.com list many, many iron sets -- yes, several with longer shafts.

Ultimately, it is your choice, but I really hate how the cloners can get away with ripping off someone else's hard work (if you couldn't tell). There are very good, cost effective choices out there. There is no reason a good original component set cannot last you a long, long time. Nor for that matter a good used set. I know that you can get a very good set without supporting the cloners/thieves.

I understand what you mean. Part of the reason I had selected the second link was because it was also a site spnser (Custom Golf Sales) and it is the Tech Power Irons that are on both sites. I didn't really think this site would allow some cheap clone to be a sponser her. I will email Christian and see if he can help me with some of the techincal stuff. I appreciate your response..

I do apologize, I didn't look at the two links too carefully. I saw the Diamond Tour, and the Pinemeadow, both big time cloners, and I did assume that the other two were also. Just looking at Giga Golf, it is pretty obvious that they are cloners, too.

However, I should not have put Custom Golf Sales in there. I actually didn't even notice that that was one of the links you posted. CGS is a good company, and also a sponsor of this site. I have personal experience with Solid Rock Golf, but I am sure that CGS is very good, too. I guess it's a toss up which one you want to use, if you liked CGS first, then by all means go with them. CGS does look like they have a few clones on their site, too, and just like my long post above said, I'd stick with the original component manufacturers, not the clones.

Wrong on Giga Golf. They are now an OEM company, and sell some really good golf clubs. I've just finished doing an extended demo/review on a set of their forged irons, and they are as good as any set of forged irons that I've ever seen or used. I'd recommend them to any good golfer with the game to handle a set of cavity back forged irons. The set I demo'ed was the Pursuit 510 forged irons. Great clubs for a real good price.

I dunno, OnePutt, Gigagolf's Ozzy right on their first screen sure looks like a Sumo clone, the Cloud Nine driver sure looks like a Ping Rapture clone (compare pictures online), the Power Max GX920 sure looks like Callaway's X460 driver (again, compare their pictures with Callaway's, it is undeniable).

One looking like each other is coincidence, two looking like each other is unfortunate happenstance, but three? Three is obvious cloning in my opinion. If they are making their own designs, why color them and put the logos on exactly the same as the big OEMS? It is awfully suspicious to me.

I got a 60* wedge from pinemeadow golf. I took it to my local golfsmith and showed it to the clubmaker there. He told me its the best clone he has ever seen. He told me that its a very high quality club. Pinemeadow uses the same type of material to build their clubheads as the big name brands. I also bought a hybrid off of them and it has been one of the best clubs in my bag. I've had other people hit it and have offered me money for it. They have a 30 day money back guarentee. So at the most it'll cost you ten bucks for shipping to give it a try.

Another suggestion is to make your clubs. But this does take some skill and a lot of your time if you've never done it before. The component clubs from golfsmith are nice and golfworks also has some nice ones too.

goin4bogey, I'm really not trying to be too argumentative here, but if their products are of such quality, is it really that hard to not make it look like the big name brands? Is it really that hard to come up with their own designs, then? I mean, really, most golf clubs are going to look an awful lot alike anyway; if their products are such quality, why not have their own unique design -- all they have to do is move some mass around a tiny bit, change the shape a tiny bit, and not color it to look like some other company's club? It's not that hard.

As much as anything, though, it's the principle of the issue. If they can make such good clubs, quit copying someone else's design and design your own!

There are several component club companies that don't copy the big names' look and design, and they are doing just fine.

If they had to come up with their own design it would cost them more money. Therefore would cost us more money. The whole point of this thread was someone looking for some quality clubs at a good price. My first set of irons was from pinemeadow because thats all I could afford at the time. If not I probably wouldn't be even playing golf right now. Sorry but not all of us can afford to spend a lot of money on a hobby. All I did was give a suggestion.

I also suggested component clubs. But if you can't make them yourself your still going to pay between $40 to $50 a club for a clubmaker to make them for you.

First off, a clubmaker can't tell what kind of metal that a club is made out of. My Dad is a machinist and has been for 30 years and he can't even tell 431 stainless from 303 or 17-4.

Second, most wedge and iron heads are made out of stainless 431, 17-4, 303 or 304 steel. The forged ones are all 8620, 1020, 1025, 1030 or 1035. That goes for clones, components, or OEM's, unless a company in Taiwan makes them out of tin.

Third, a person cannot determine the geometric values of a clubhead by looking at it, ie MOI, COG, etc...

Then buy used. I am not trying to cost someone loads of money. I am on a tight budget myself. But, the point is that one person/company did all the research, did all the testing, did all the work, and then another comes by and steals their work. The cloners steal the design, steal the look, steal everything they can about the original club.

I have not idea what you do for a living, but if someone came by and stole my work, I'd be beyond angry.

On their development costs, they have to spend some money to figure out how to copy another's design in the first place. The other companies aren't just giving that information away. If instead of using that money to copy a clubhead, what if they put it into developing their own? They wouldn't need to put much money into an original design, either. Like I said, golf clubs are going to look largely all the same. They are stealing other company's designs by painting them up to look like other company's clubs and using the exact same shape. They should develop their own slightly differently shaped clubhead, with slightly different coloring scheme, and then it would be an original design -- not stealing. It really is that simple.

Also, one of this site's sponsors, Solid Rock Gold, has a set of component irons on their website that comes to $21.29 an iron, built and shipped (That's $149 for 3-PW). I don't know if he still does it, but they even used to offer a Golf Rewind discount, too.

You don't have to support companies that steal others companies' work to get good cheap clubs.

Real bad example. 431 is magnetic (chromium-iron) verses 303 which is non-magnetic (chromium-nickel)

I really wanted a set with the hybrids on the longer irons. I emailed Solid Rock Golf about putting that $149.00 set (the Tech Power MX-7) together and recieved an email back after thier buisness hours in a very quick mannor. He gave me a great quote to make the 3 & 4 hybrids. I am thinking of adding a sand wedge as well. Also, they do the spine aligning free, which a lot of the other online sites charge for. I am just doing a little more research on the clubs and shafts now.

Okay, jag-off. I am talking by looks alone, obviously.

Oh...should have said so; your Dad probably knew that.