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I have been wondering for a while now from the literature i have read, it seems like the irons' swing should be deeper than what one would use to hits woods and the driver (wider). Can anyone here verify this for me. My coach keeps telling me that its the exact same swing for every club in the bag. So there is this contradiction in my head, and i'd love for it to go away. Please help.

Thanks,
Rao.

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It's the same swing.


The same takeaway, the same tempo, the same weight shift.

The problem with drivers today is twofold. First, drivers are no longer simply an extension of a wood set. If you have occasion to watch an old golf match from the sixties, you'll hear the commentator often refer to the the driver as a "number one wood". Back then, it was simply the steepest lofted wood in the bag and it was marginally longer than the nearest wood, (which was often a two wood or a Brassie.

Over the years, especially with the advent of the metalwood, the driver came to be regarded as a "power club". And since the 2-wood was discarded in favor of the 1-iron or an extra wedge, the driver came to stand alone as the premier tee-shot club.

The second part of the equation is length. With the advent of the lightweight graphite shaft, players found that they could increase their swing speed, by lengthening the shaft, since the added length didn't add a lot of extra weight, in an effort to gain a bit more distance.
Today, we've reached a point where a driver has become an icon, an extension of one's personality and a specialty club. It has become the modern symbol of power, prestige, wealth and ego.

Today, it almost seems as if "The Driver" should be carried on a satin pillow by a special bearer. And when the player asks for it, the bearer solemnly removes it from the pillow, genuflects to the heavens and the the clouds part, a shaft of golden sunlight shines down and trumpets sound as he hands it to the player.

Naturally, such a special club must also have a special swing to go with it.


Nonsense!


It's the same swing as all the other clubs. Naturally, you'll stand a bit farther from the ball with a bit wider stance, but other than that, a driver swing should be no different than a 9-iron swing.
What has further clouded the issue is the longer length I mentioned. And to a certain degree, this has helped foster the notion that a driver swing is different. If the club is exceptionally long, (as many modern drivers are), the swing will be flattened considerably and an unnatural, (in my opinion), adjustment has to made to accommodate this unusually long length.

This extra length comes from the fact that many Tour Pro's, trying to milk the last possible advantage from the club, tried longer shafts to increase swing arc and thus clubhead speed. While this may have worked for some, most have since realized that the adjustments needed to accommodate this exceptionally long club weren't worth the effort and many have since returned to more realistic lengths. This extra length did indeed require an adjustment in one's swing and that is the main reason why the myth of a special driver swing gained acceptance.

Try seeing your driver as simply the club you use to tee off with rather than some holy weapon of war, and you'll go a long way to understanding that it's just another club in the bag.





-JP

Not exact same swing, but same tempo. Iron's are meant to have a descending blow, which means you take a divot after you make contact with the ball. This gives the ball enormous backspin. The backspin gives it lift and stability, giving you the ability to hit shots with high precision. If you did that with the driver, you would give it to much backspin causing it to balloon and you would lose distance. You need a sweeping, more level swing with the driver. You can still swing harder with the same tempo, but I find that the only time to do that is when I have a long carry to a fairway.

100% Agreed!!

Thanks for the replies. I started doing something new the other day, i was noticing that i was topping the ball too much these days with my irons, so i stood in front of a mirror and noticed that i was releasing my wrists too soon on my downswing. I watched a video of a pro the day before and i could see very clearly that he was releasing his wrists a lot later in the downswing than i was. So i hit the range this morning to try releasing my wrists later on in my downswing. And it worked very well with my irons at least. I was now taking a divot after hitting the ball and there was a feeling of "elasticity" when i hit the ball, kind of like a smack, rather than a forced lift that i was getting used to. I didn't have the time to try my swing change with my driver, but am hoping this is going to yield similar results, albeit i'm very scared of changing how i hit my driver, believe it or not, driving is the most consistent part of my game. So lets see if the same swing change works for me with my driver, if it does, i think it will be safe for ME to conclude that both irons and driver swings are very similar. If it doesn't, i'll have to try and have two separate swings, 1 for my driver and 1 for my irons. Somehow, two different swings doesn't make sense, to me at least.

Rao.

Where as you have some good comments in here... you are wrong when it comes to the difference. As someone else said, irons are more of a descending blow to where drivers should be swung on a level, or even a touch on the upswing. There should be NO descending action on your driver. EVER.

The philosophies are the same however. You have a LOAD (backswing), a transition (top of the swing), and a powerful move (downswing through the ball). These are the same... However, most people have different swing planes for the driver due to its length. There was a great article in Golf Digest a few months ago on difference in swing planes of pros as they switched clubs, mainly from a wedge to a driver (both being extremes of your bag).

What this article was trying to explain is that there isnt really such a thing on the tour as a ONE PLANE SWING. For the average golfer, it is ok to create consistancy, but these athletes are the best in the world and they all have the same swings from hip-to-hip (on the downswing and through the ball). Their hands are all in the same position before impact, at impact, and after impact. That is why they are so **** good.

to say that one should hit a driver the same way they would a lob wedge is acinine....even if you watch vintage palmer, nicklaus, player videos they didn't hit as down on the ball as they did their irons....not even with the brassie...the longer the club the flatter the swing plane no matter what era you swing it in. The driver is different from every other club in the bag because it is meant to be hit on the upswing not the downswing that even your 3 wood is meant to be hit on....that's the reason why it doesnt have the curved leading edge that other woods have...and it never has had a curved leading edge...If the driver were no different than the three wood except for loft and head size wouldn't it be no harder to hit off the ground than a three wood....Have you ever tried to hit a high draw with a driver off the ground???? Not that easy without that curved leading edge to cut into the ground so that the ball is contacted by the sweet spot is it.

so definitely like most everyone here said...tempo and the swing motion itself is the same you just have it farther forward in your setup so that you catch it at the very start of the the upswing...

Good luck
Omen

Could it be that it's the same swing, but since the ball position changes relative to the arc the club makes on the downswing through the impact area, the club's effect on the ball changes (i.e. the further back the ball is the more down you hit on the ball)?

This is just my inner "devils advocate" talking... my driver swing feels a bit different than my 5-iron swing which feels different than my lob wedge swing. My tempo is pretty much the same, but it feels different, probably because of the length of the club and the position of the ball at address...

This has taken me a while to explain but these are my thoughts from what I have learnt and seen (best images that I think show this would be Ernie Els, 'building a classic swing'.

Ok. Person A takes his driver and say that half way back, his arm is parallel to the ground (9 o'clock), from the front the club shaft is vertical and from down the target line the shaft goes through his right shoulder. Due to club length and lie, at address Person A does not bend as much from the hips and it appears that the club is moving more around his body.

Person A then takes a short iron. Again half way back, his arm is parallel to the ground (9 o'clock), from the front the club shaft is vertical and from down the target line the shaft goes through his right shoulder. Because the club is shorter and more upright, at address Person A bends more from the hips so during the swing it appears that the club is moving in a more upright plane and the shaft appears more upright.

In relation to his upper body the club is the same position. It is the same basic swing. The only difference is club length/lie, so angle of the upper body during the swing and ball position.

I am not saying that everyone should have the shaft going through their shoulder, its just an example.

I think that all of us have merit when it comes to theories regarding the golf swing. Club should be pointing at target at top of backswing, same swingplane, swing from the inside—all that good stuff. But from what I observe on the tour, today's great players seem to have unorthodox swings or swings that defy the theories of how the golf swing should be. Tiger seems to have the only swing that follow these rules. Couples goes past parallel and stands WAY open and hit's a 300+ yard fade. Vijay's right hand comes off the club at impact. Jim Furyk is very loopy. Phil goes past parallel and his left hand comes off the club at impact. Even Jack and Arnie had unorthodox swings. The one common thing they have is great tempo. That is one thing I try to learn from the greats.

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An arc is an arc.

The only reason you're hitting "down" on an iron swing is because the ball is on the ground as opposed to a tee and it's further back in your stance.

The "descending blow" is simply a byproduct of this.
Say that the bottom of your swing arc is Zero. This position would likely be used when hitting, say, a 4iron. That is to say that the 4-iron clubface strikes the ball at the "0" point of the arc. A 5-iron might make contact at the "minus .5 point", (because the ball is slightly further back(, the 6-iron might be minus 1 and so on.

A driver is struck either level or slightly on the upswing because it's on a tee and the ball is positioned further forward in the stance. So a driver might be struck at the "plus 1 or 1.5" point on the swing arc.

A divot is also a byproduct of hitting a ball early in the swing arc using a descending blow which is the result of moving the ball further back in the stance. A divot is not a "goal".

There is no difference between a driver swing and a 9-iron swing other than ball position and the natural difference in swing plane due to club length. But they are both arcs.

Now, there are specialty shots such as "pinching" a ball to gain backspin, bunker shots and certain other types of shots which require a more upright backswing and more of a "chopping" motion, but for standard shots, they're basically all the same.

Someone mentioned Nicklaus earlier in this thread. That brought to mind an instructional tape of his I once watched, (and still have somewhere), called "Golf My Way". There is a segment in this tape where he addresses this very issue. The segment includes a comparison of Nicklaus' wedge swing, short iron swing, long iron swing and driver swing. It is presented in a manner in which the screen is segmented into quadrants, each with one of these swings displayed and all four are triggered simultaneously. As one watches the sequence, it is quite obvious that all four swings are identical. In fact, this excercise is the entire point of the segment and Nicklaus himself points this out.

The only difference, as I stated earlier, is that shorter clubs will bring the golfer closer to the ball and create a smaller arc while a driver will bring him further from the ball and produce a larger arc. And, once again, the relationship of the clubhead striking either downward or upward is dictated by ball position.

But the swings are all the same.

If you don't believe this, then I suggest you find a copy of that tape and see for yourself.


-JP

No two, or three shots are the same, nor are the clubs. Play it as it lies, and you will soon find out that the original post is stupid. But then!..what do I know?

??? Perhaps a better choice of words?

so if all swings are the same whats different about a golf swing and a baseball swing? or an axe swing? or a tennis swing... nothing right just plane and ball or target for that matter...

WRONG...each club requires a different swing...and for all the descending blows a DIVOT is definitely a Goal....that's why all pros take divots....

let's think about what we are saying before we say it....saying that a divot is not a goal with iron play goes against everything every top ranked golf/ swing coach has ever said....hank haney would probably not agree with you as do none of us.

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Hey, there are plenty of pro's out there who do not take divots.

Most do on shots with short clubs, but many hit long irons and even mid iron and do not take divots.

A lot of the divot stuff you see today is the result of this whole "de-lofting" thing that's going on. Have you noticed that in the last few years all of a sudden everyone seems to be hitting 195 yd. 8-irons, or 250 yd. 2-irons?

That's the result of intentionally delaying the release or "bowing" the lead hand at impact to take the loft of the club down a notch or two to gain some extra distance. THAT will almost always produce a divot because the club is being manipulated to strike the ball not only first but in a way that sends the leading edge into the ground considerably forward of the ball -- more so than normal. On a normal shot, the leading edge of the club contacts the turf, (and may or may not produce a divot), slightly after making contact with the ball. In a de-lofted swing, the divot occurs considerably beyond the ball.

And as I said above, if you're looking to produce more dramatic spin then the ball is struck with a sharply downward blow. But in a normal shot, a divot may or may not occur. Often, on a good normal shot, the leading edge of the club simply brushes the turf.



-JP