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Hi all

I've been thinking about my swing and in particular why I'm pulling the ball with a slight out-in downswing.
Been reading up on some Ben Hogan and seen some pictures of tour pros and it seems to me that there right elbow (for RH golfers) at the top is pointing straight down to the ground so there forearm is vertical.
Currently my elbow points outwards slightly - ie behind me.
This I think (and hope) may be the reason behind my inconsistent ball striking.
Has anyone any thoughts on this ?
I've practiced without a club looking at body position and it certainly feels easier to get the club on the right plane going down. Any thoughts would be great.

I have the perfect drill/cure for you. Place a towel under your left arm pit and make swings. The towel should not fall out until after you hit the ball and you follow through.

By keeping the left arm (lead side) connected to the body will make sure you stay on plane and keep the right elbow down close to the body. Also by keepint the left arm connected will force you to release the club fully. So if you notice a hook, correct with a slightly weaker grip.

i disagree with this very common drill. A slight separation at the top is key for creating proper torque and body posistion. I taught this drill for a while to my students and started seeing a recurring issue with some of them. I threw out the drill and taught a more natural, slightly detached position at the top and things turned around for them.

HOWEVER if you are WAY off then the towel drill will help you get closer to where you need to be just dont get stuck on this rigid position once you have corrected your original issue.

Mizuno. I don't know if you would agree but especially with myself I found it was not the swing as much as it was with changing spine alignment through the swing that caused me erratic ball control and the result was often the pull left which is my misses. For me it seems to be easy to get too quick with the shoulder and torso turn and outrace the hips putting the ball left of target. When I stay down through the impact my ball flies directly at target line straight as an arrow. I see alot of pros when they video them from the down the line view that look to cut across the ball outside in but they play that plane and line to the ball and their clubface is aligned to create the desired ball flight so in my view a slight out to in is not a killer any more than an in to out might cause problems with getting stuck or hooking the ball. Inquiring mind needs to know?

I agree, i've seen this view while watching swings on video as well. Alignment is really key in ball direction. For example. My flop shot is a very open stance and a HUGE out to in swing but the ball goes straight... Not straight to were my shoulders, or feet are facing but straight where i want it to go. Lee Trevino lined way open and struck it down the center every time. If you have perfect alignment shoulders AND feet, and you swing outside-in you have better have PERFECT timing on the rotation of the club head to sync up for straight ball flight.

I would just as soon eliminate almost ALL timing out of my swing and get to a natural tempo. Nothing about my swing out paces, out races, or our turns the other. My hips, shoulders, and arms all turn together. So, if im tight in my hips i just shorten up my swing to match the rotation until i can stretch out. Also on a side note i dont cock my wrists at all.

This method keeps me from having to manipulate the club head to match up the rest of my body. It might sound complicated but in reality its a very simple swing with very consistent results. I modeled this from years of trial and error, and watching many swings on tape.

I agree with what you said and I've tried to do the same thing with my newer swing I've been working on. I still have the old tendency to shift my spine angle when trying to cook the shot which falls back onto old habits. My newer swing is pretty much a slight in to out one plane with a narrower stance. I pretty much copied my pitching routine but with a fuller swing which gives me good distance and control without having to overswing. Again my errors are not from my new swing but trying to forget the old swing which still wants to creep in every so often. To give a comparison in performance of the two swings my best GIR from my old swing was 4 of 18 and the last round was 9 of 18 and the misses were close on all but 2 in which one was a 3 iron pulled way left and a 5 iron pulled left and short. Most of my good contacts that miss are short because I tend to want to error on the area that gives me a pitch up the slope and the way our course is layed out the majority of the holes have severe trouble behind them with some having lateral hazards or OB on some. Still working on perfecting carry distances so again it is safer to error short than long. The swing change was started when I got my new forged yonex irons at the start of the year but it seems to be getting more consistant each week.

I too have been reading up on the position of the right elbow at the top. From what I have read, it depends on whether you are a two-plane or one plane swinger. The elbow should be pointing behind you with a one plane swing but should be pointing straight down (or nearly straight down) when employing a two plane swing. Many of us mix fundementals between the two types of swing. Currently my elbow is pointing more behind me but I am a two plane swinger and want to correct that. What in my backswing would most like cause the elbow to point behind me instead of down. I don't want to think about not pointing my elbow behind me I want to know what causes it. Seems to me if we use the proper method to bring the club back to the top, we should not have to worry about where the elbow is going. Is there a fundemental of bringing the club back I am ignoring?

I don't know what the instructors on here would say for sure but I think with both swing styles it is ok for the elbow to be slightly behind and one would have to be careful of getting the elbow too much up and down as too not get it stuck on the downswing causing the ball to be pushed or having to flip the hands at impact to get the clubface squared at impact.

Mizuno said: '' Lee Trevino lined way open and struck it down the center every time ''

That was one of the examples that Hank Haney spoke of when he was asked about the importance of alignment. Not that he deemed it unimportant, but said that it was overrated. The other example he gave was that Moe Norman alligned slightly to the right of his target and hit a slight pull to the left which was, effectively, down the middle

It's not so important where your right elbow / forearm is at the top of your swing. What's important is where it is half way down on the downswing.

Just look at the likes of Jim Furyk and David Toms. Their right elbows are flying way out there and real high at the top. But they manage to get it down and keep the arm tugged and folded half way down before they swing through. Essentially Furyk and Toms get into the same position half way down as other golfers with "prettier" swings.