golfrewind.com

Hello everyone, it's my first post here so take it easy on me. I currently play off a 16 handicap, but 2 months ago was down to 14 and ever since then I've been awful, back to back 100+ scores have me frustrated!!!

Anyway on to the topic. I've grown increasingly frustrated and have resorted to trying to find remedies/help on the net. I've heard/read alot of debate about what is easier to master the 1 or 2 plane swing, but I'm still unsure. I'm wondering if one might be easier or better to learn if it's closer to my current swing????

Currently I have an out to in swing, which when working well gives my a soft fade, but when my timing is out (which it currently is) I get a mix of pull-hooks, and big slices (does not sound flash does it!!!). I'd consider myself co-ordinated (I play a number of other ball sports), but my build is quite stocky. Not sure if this stuff is relevant but thought I'd chuck it in just in case.

Any thoughts would be appreciated....Just wondering if people might have an idea on what might be better suited to my game- 2planes or 1???

All swings are 2 plane swings unless you're using Natural Golf. Of course not all 2 plane swings are the same. You can go with Jim Furyk's super upright 2 plane or Ben Hogan's flatter 2 plane. But both Furyk and Hogan have to drop into the slot before they swing through. It's just a matter of how far each has to go to get into that slot.

I disagree with tradewind4. There are one and two plane swings and the fundementals for them vary. I don't know that it matters whether your are short or tall. Here is a link that explains the two types of swing pretty well:

GolfDigest.com - Book Excerpt: One Plane vs. Two Plane

Another link that explans other aspects of the two vs. one plane swing:

Golf Teaching Pros: Teachers for Golfers

This should get you started. There is a difference of elbow position at the top, how and when the hips move, and how you take the club back, posture at address, and other subtelties. Most of us use a combination of the principles from both types of swings.

You almost unwind from the top down with the one plane swing while in the two plane there is a pronounced lower body move to start the downswing and get the club back on plane. The two plane works best for me because I like the idea of powering the forward swing with my hips. The one plane is more about shoulder turn forward against a solid base that doesn't move around as much. I have problems with the one plane because one has to independently time the hip turn with the shoulder turn more. Do some googling or searching on this forum and you will probably find other threads/article to explain the two swings more.

Another link on one vs. two plane swing: One Plane vs Two Plane Golf Swing - David Toms and Vijay Singh

You say you have an outside-to-in swing which is commonly caused by "coming over the top", an expression you may have heard before. This is a quote from the article which explains the causes for this move:

It is critical for the arms to drop back down on plane before the body begins to rotate back to the left. Many two plane golf instructors teach a "looping" motion in the swing where the club swings up on the backswing and is then "flattened" on the downswing in order to get the club back on the proper plane. Jim Furyk is an extreme example of this, but a lot of two planers will due this to some degree. The difficulty is getting the amount of drop correct as well as the timing of the drop, not to mention the patience required to not "hit" the ball from the top of the swing - where the body begins rotating back to the left before the arms have dropped. Those that don't resist the "hit" urge and begin rotating back to the left before the arms drop on plane will swing "over the top" if the arms didn't drop at all or be in a "stuck" position if the arms didn't get back in front of the body.

Some people may say that the one plane swing is easier in this regard. Since on keeps the club on the same plane as the shoulders, one has only to rotate the shoulders to get the club back to the ball. Well, it is not that simple but it may be an easier move for some people.

Well I converted several years ago to an one-plane swing called Natural Golf and have never regretted it. For almost 20-years I struggled with the traditional swing and my handicapped ranged in that time from 20 to 14. After taking up NG and just three lessons my handicap dropped to single digits and after about a decade it is down to 4. So I am happy about it.

If you want to know more go here, click on the ONLINE INSTRUCTION link, and see what you think.

Edit:
Many claim Moe Norman invented Natural Golf, but he did not, he just coined the phrase. The credit actually goes to Byron Nelson. Interesting to note Iron Byron, the machine based on Byron Nelson's swing, is a Natural Golf Swing used by all the equipment manufactures.

[quote=hbendillo;355808]I disagree with tradewind4. There are one and two plane swings and the fundementals for them vary. I don't know that it matters whether your are short or tall. Here is a link that explains the two types of swing pretty well:

GolfDigest.com - Book Excerpt: One Plane vs. Two Plane

You take one look at the picture of the supposed "one plane" swing and you have to begin to wonder: What plane is the author talking about? See the line the author draws on that picture through the shoulder in line with the shaft. I'm sorry but if you extend that line all the way to the ground, it will be at least a couple of feet outside the ball. This means the "one-plane" guy is not on plane. If that guy were to just unwind without dropping into the correct plane like the author suggests, he's gonna miss the ball completely.

So the pictures actually prove my point about one plane swings. What you think is the one plane swing is just a flatter version of a 2 plane swing. Now natural golf that dereckbc talks about is what I think the true 1 plane swing. Dereckbc can elaborate on it more if you care to know.

dereckbc, do you know which aspects of the Natural Golf helped you the most?

Moe Norman's swing video at the Graves Academy shows his club at address in the same position as at impact, and this is said to be "One Plane" because they, the positions, are the same, whereas the two plane swinger has his hands lower at address than at impact. You can see that Moe has a different lower plane for his backswing than for his downswing, and he has to make a loop, so technically he has two planes, but he could have one plane if he took the club back on the downswing plane. Most golfers have these loops don't they?

Perhaps it helps that Normans arms are much closer to the downswing swingplane in the setup?

I would like to see how Norman deals with the setup differences between clubs. Does he bend over differently or just set his arms higher and lower?

By the way, except for putting, the shoulders never turn in the same plane as the club or arms, so I agree with that position mentioned above. Apparantly there is some confusion about the definition of one plane and two plane. I just wonder if Golf Digest caused that confusion. I know their advice got me totally confused when I was a kid.

Stick, you could try my "experimental downswing exercise" to see if that helps you. Do a search on this site to find it.

Steve I will do my best to explain it. Short answer is it is much simpler to execute because there is only one hinge or one plane.

In a traditional or modern swing the arms and club shaft are on different lines or an angle (two-planes). This angle means your arms have to rotate the toe of the club has to open to parallel of the swing arc. Then one the downswing the process has to reverse and is a very complex move that is extremely difficult to time and execute. Or another way to look at it is a ball-n-socket type of hinge with two levers, one the arm and hands, the other the club.

With a NG swing (I hate that term b/c it is a marketing buzz word), The club and arms form a single straight line, and the hinge is a pin type like a door hinge (look at Iron Byron the machine). So the one aspect is the grip with what Moe called the SUNNY SIDE UP with the right hand (radically strong right hand placement in the palm rather than the fingers). To execute the swing you keep the arms right in front of your torso, rotate the shoulders, cock the right hand, then unleash the hammer on the ball.. It is very easy to execute repeatable time after time.

The NG swing is very easy and quick to learn. Some people will say they do not want to use NG brand clubs, that is rubbish, any custom club manufacture will work. I have used Ping and Calaway for the last 10 years using NG. My traditional fitting was +1/4 inch shaft, 2 degrees up, and standard grip. My NG fitting is plus 1-inch shaft, normal lie, and 3 extra wraps on the lower portion of the grip.

Hope that helps.

Thanks everyone for your responses. hbendillo that golf digest.com article is fantastic. I think I'll save that to the 'favourites' folder. I think I'm going to give the one plane swing a go for a couple of months and see how I go. At the moment I've definitely got a mixture of both swings and this is obviously what is causing me problems. I'll keep you all posted on my progress, I can't wait to get out to the range and practise!!!!

Cheers

[quote=Tradewind4;355835]Tradewind4:


I'm not going to expand on this at great length but...........You are absolutely CORRECT!!! NOBODY can stay in that one plane slot for the entire swing and make crisp contact. They all raise up out of it and then come down into the slot on the downswing.

[quote=Tradewind4;355835]I don't necessarily disagree with you if one wants to be literally precise about it. There are perhaps other golfers who come closer to the ideal one plane swing that he could have used. What we can say there is a swing we call the one plane swing and one that we call a two plane swing that have different principles involved. Someone attempting to use the principles of the one plane swing don't have nearly as far to drop the club to get it back on on plane.

I think two of the most important things in golf are the set up and the first move forward in the swing. Considering whether one is trying to swing the club closer to one plane or two is a determining factor on those two aspects of the swing. Studying the one vs. two plane swing principles gives us some insight on how to perform those two functions.