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Hello, Oggy again :)

I have been playing extremely regularly in the last few months and have got my handicap down from 11 to 8 and to be honest i think there is probably a bit more in there.

However, I have no developed a slight draw which has not been practiced. This shouldnt be a problem, but as I have gone from a fade to a draw without consciously trying I am a bit concerned. My bad shot is now a duck hook kind of shot but I find that if I really concentrate on a smooth takeaway and strong followthrough then this isnt a problem.

Is it normal to have to concentrate on such basic fundamentals and should I be happy with my new shot shape.

Thanks in advance.

Oggy

All depends on why you've gone from a fade to a draw. There could be any number of reasons, but you are doing something differently now than you were when you were hitting a fade, and you're doing something quite different when you hit that duck hook, and take it from me, the duck hook is an absolute game killer. I'd take a massive slice any day over a duck hook, and this is from someone who's had both.

The other thing is, is it really a draw, or is it a pull? If you're hitting a fade it's an open clubface - there's no other way. It could be an open clubface with an outside-in swing path, but it's an open clubface. Now, assuming your swing path is out-to-in and you are now hitting a pull - not a draw, but a pull - than you have the same swing path as you had with your fade, but your clubface is now square relative to that outside-in swing path, whereas when you were hitting the fade, it was open relative to that outside-in swing path.

Are ya with me?

The only way to hit a draw (unless the laws of physics have been refined lately) is an inside-out swing path with a clubface closed relative to that swing path.

Essentially you need to find out why it's happening (and what is happening), then you can decide if it's good or bad.

The only way to hit a draw (unless the laws of physics have been refined lately) is an inside-out swing path with a clubface closed relative to that swing path.

Essentially you need to find out why it's happening (and what is happening), then you can decide if it's good or bad.[/quote]

You can have a draw with any swing path provided the clubface is closed in relation to that path. It doesn't have to be just in to out. An in to out swing path though causes a draw with better players unless they line up their target line left and open the face for a power fade. At least this is what I've been led to believe.

I would say you are now releasing the wrists through the swing possibly turning it over and getting the draw and sometimes an early release will cause the hook. Could be something, also as simple as you've changed something in your alignment.

Sure, you can draw a ball off an outside-in swing path - but why would you want to?

My point remains valid.

I guess it depends on ones swing path whether they want it to draw, go straight or fade. I just stated that because you implied there was only one way to draw the ball and that was with an in to out swing path. I don't make assumptions that because a person is a 15 or a 5 handicap that they have a perfect swing or know swing physics. It could mean they are just normally real consistant at what they do, whether ideal or not. I used to have a big out to in and if I kept closing the face I would find a setup position for the clubface at address that generally gave me a straight flight by aiming further right I could hit the fairway. If I wanted to draw it around a corner I turned the face further closed. It wasn't the perfect swing and I only patched a problem but there are reasons one might do it as I just stated so I don't think your point remains valid. Now if you had added that it was possible, off another swing path but why would you, I would have not replied because your point would hold merit. Didn't want to start a bickering session. I just wanted to point out so others understood it is not the only way because physics is all encompassing.

You're right, the way I described it isn't the only way to draw a ball. But like Chris Rock once said, you can drive a car with your feet if you want to, but that don't make it a good idea.

My point is absolutely 100% valid, much more so than a complete assumption. I would say figuring out whether it truly is a draw and not a pull and going from there to swing path and the related angle of the clubface to that path is a sound way of approaching his question.

But hey, that's just me.

In the end, the reason for the new draw/sometime hook may have something to do with releasing of the wrists, or it may have nothing whatsoever to do with that. It does, however, have everything to do with swing path and angle of the clubface relative to that path.

I was just trying to help him diagnose what was happening.

Incorrect statement, a draw can be hit with any path. It is the closed clubface with respect to the path. Like already stated nothing worse than hitting a double cross pulled hook.

I understand what you were trying to do and say and again I didn't want to cause any ill feelings. Without anyone seeing his swing we can only make assumptions on what might cause it but I just didn't want him to rule all the possibilities out since we both agree that it is face angle to swing path related. I also agree with you that you wouldn't normally ever want to go out to in with a draw but some of us never had proper knowledge or training for years and just developed patches for our lack of knowledge. The way I see it if golf was that easy and simple then every pro would shoot par every day they play and we know they don't so that helps me accept any bad shots I make while on the course.

Stop hijacking my post ;)

It is definitly a draw, the pro has said so. He looked at my swing today and said that I am just getting through the ball alot better. This will obviously take a lot of getting used to.

I only duck hook it very rarely its fair to say, but it always seems to be when I really try and hit it hard if you know what i mean. If I concentrate on finishing the swing with a good strong follow through then all is well.

I havent changed the way I allign, in so much as I have changed the direction to aiming ever so slightly right to compensate but this hasnt caused any problems.

As far as I know my takeaway is as solid as it has ever been, if not slightly slower but all round it feels good. i was just wondering why all of a sudden this has happened.

I know I have concentrated on my grip alot more and made my left hand play a stronger part (Right Handed by the way ;)) in that the shaft now lays along the part of my hand where the palm meets the fingers.

So in summary, this is not a pull, but a draw as far as I am aware, I just need clarification on the fact that to have a consistent draw you need a consistent swing with a good follow through.

I play off 7.1 now by the way.

Thanks

Then gosh darnit, Coralpro was right

I also find that grip plays an enormous part in how I swing. Nine times out of 10 when I'm hitting the ball poorly, I've gotten lazy with my grip.

Anyhoo, congrats on the draw. I went from slice to fade to draw to the occasional hook to a lot of hooks back to the fade, and the fade is where I'm stayin'.

Like Lee Travino once said, "You can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen."

At 7.1 there isn't much help many of us can give now. Hopefully you have a touch of improvement left in the short game area and you could drop it a little more. Good luck and if you have a pro you feel good with you might want to see him every so often for tune-ups. Wish we were all at that level!

Trevino was right because I had a drive into the wind I wanted to keep low today and turned it over and nomatter how loud I yelled whoaaaaaa, it just kept going. Two fairways over.

Anybody who's ever battled a hook would take a "power fade" any day

I've been there

All I care about is eliminating one side of the hole but unfortunately it doesn't always happen. I agree that the power fade is a big improvement and much easier to control that a draw that randomly goes to hook.