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I just can't put enough side spin on the ball to make it fade. The ball just goes in the direction of my swing path (which is left) and doesn't go back to the right. I have problem playing the cut with anything shorter than my 6 iron. If I open the club face too much, I usually just push the ball straight right.

So how do you play a cut say for shots within 140 yards?

What is your 'bad' arm like strengthwise? I am right handed and often found my right arm just dominated the left so trying to hit a sizeable cut would result in my going left. I have done a fair bit of work on short game using my left arm and controlling the club face and, with a stronger arm, I am now somewhat more successful at holding the club face through impact.

It's hard to hit a sizeable cut with a short iron. The shorter club length makes it more difficult to force an outside-in swing. Plus, the higher lofted clubs produce more backspin that hides the sidespin.

I've been present at some PGA Tour events and from the groups I watched, none of the tour players really hit any shapes with their short irons.

I did see Freddy Couples hit a little fade with a 4-iron on a 220-ish par 3 that landed softly about 5 feet from the stick. I was directly behind him when he hit the shot so I almost had the perspective of the player hitting the shot and watching it. It was awesome, but I'm sorry I've strayed from the topic... oops!

Well it doesn't have to be a sizeable cut. I just want to be able to aim for the middle of the green and let the ball fade to the pin on the right. Or aim at the left edge of the green and fade the ball to the middle. So I'm only talking about 4-7yards of fade. But haven't been able to do that yet.

I'll tell you right now that the shortest club you'll be able to fade 20 feet will be an 8 or 9 iron.

You should be able to cut a 7 iron about 25 or 30 feet. If you're hitting pushes, then you're simply leaving the face open and not swinging out to in. If you're hitting straight pulls then you need to hold your hands off (stop them from turning the toe over).

I'd start with a 7 iron and experiment on the range. Work down from there. You're not going to get more than a 10 foot cut with any wedges unless you thin them.

Another question I have is: why does it seem easier to draw with short irons than it is to fade with them? I mean side spin is side spin right? Why is it easier to spin it one way than the other?

Swinging the club from the inside out is easier with a short club. With a longer club, it's easy to "get stuck" (having to rotate your lower body to make room for your arms) when you try to swing from the inside. Long story short, it's easier to swing from the inside and impart draw spin with a shorter, more upright club.

I agree totally. I can put a little more draw spin on a 9-iron than fade spin. Usually if I cut a short iron, it doesn't move a whole lot, but you can visually tell from the ballflight (right at the apex) that there is some slice spin on the shot.

For me, it's just a more reliable shot to play a slight draw with my middle and short irons. I don't try to cut the ball unless I really, really have to. In my 2-iron, 3-wood and driver, the cut seems more reliable.

k do you think this will work to promote a cut with short iron?

ball position: closer to you than normal

backswing: mostly arms, less shoulder turn

downswing: mostly just turn your lower body, and hold off release

finish: the shaft is almost verticle

For my swing, the mostly just turn your lower body equals a shank, LOL.

When I cut anything, I do this...

Weaken my grip a bit

Take a normal backswing but start my downswing by uncoiling my shoulders across the line

My desired finish would have my shaft leaning to the right once my hands got to eye level, but I'm not as consistent in my finish as I'd like to be...

The big thing for me is the shoulder release. Any other way I try to cut across the ball, I end up just leaving the face open. It's instinct to think to manipulate the swing path with your hands and arms but the big muscles really control that sort of thing.

Open stance and slightly outside-in swing. You must get the feeling that your hands are playing a dominant role.

It is easier to draw than fade simply as a result of the spin. Fade spin is (notionally) backspin orientated whilst draw is topspin. Think about it - you can hit a sharp duck hook which reaches it's apex and dives. Have you ever seen a slice equivalent?

So when you draw the ball you are reducing the backspin and hence the sidespin is more effective.

Tradewind - I would think you would have to be a 3-5 h'cap or better to be asking, eh? At 9-hcap, I score better when I focus on just going for the center. I'm with Martini here - unless you're scratch (or close), working 8's and 9's or less is asking a lot of your game.

The main reason, which surprises me no one has mentioned...the ball speed is too low to really turn much. As with any aerodynamic, the faster the speed the more the effect. Just like throwing a curve ball. Its more effective to have a fast speed curve ball than a slow speed. Tennis top spin.. same thing.

Careful...that will promote a sh**k as well...

It's just funny, on the course, that I see these high handicappers who slice the **** out of their drivers and woods would play these beautiful baby fades with their short irons. I'm like "wow why can't I do that?"