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Old August 3rd, 2007, 12:22 PM
gpickypick gpickypick is offline
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Getting Stuck

I was confused as to what this meant, and Martini78 was kind enough to help me out. I'm going to post what he sent me because I think it's helpful, and because he said I could here.

When people hit longer clubs (primarily drivers), they often want to draw the ball. Golfers are taught to swing from the inside-out to impart draw spin. Often times, golfers take this to the extreme and really get the club too far inside on the way down towards impact. The extreme inside position that "getting stuck" entails forces you to move your body prematurely in order to make room for your hands and arms.

When you do this, you're going to hit either big push fades with the face wide open or flip hooks that usually end up being snappers. It makes the straight or acceptable drive the low percentage result.

The main cause of "getting stuck" is having a club that points to the right of the target at the top of your backswing. Visualize it. Picture looking at a golfer at the top of the backswing with a club pointing to the right of where he is aiming. When he starts down, where does the clubhead go? Way inside and stuck.

If you want to see the exact opposite, look at Sergio's position. He must have had bad battles with getting stuck in the past because he exaggerates the opposite position. His club points left at the top and he's a good driver of the golf ball, long and fairly accurate.


Sure enough:
YouTube - Sergio Garcia on 9th K Club Ryder Cup Practice
YouTube - Sergio Garcia Golf Swing
YouTube - Sergio Garcia

Any other comments, perhaps to help diagnose or cure "getting stuck"?
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Old August 3rd, 2007, 05:13 PM
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coralpro coralpro is offline
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Re: Getting Stuck

Roger Gunn said many times getting stuck could be contributed to dropping the right shoulder too far.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 06:59 AM
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Re: Getting Stuck

I thought getting the club stuck occurred when you spin your hips and your lower body and upper body is un-synchronized ? I mean, the hips outrace the shoulders, arms and hands and they just get '' thrown '' into the ball
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Old August 7th, 2007, 11:58 AM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by trillionaire View Post
I thought getting the club stuck occurred when you spin your hips and your lower body and upper body is un-synchronized ? I mean, the hips outrace the shoulders, arms and hands and they just get '' thrown '' into the ball
Getting stuck is merely not clearing the hips to allow to allow the club to return to the ball on the desired swing plane. It can be cause by a variety of swing and/or timing issues. At least that is my take on it.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 06:43 AM
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Martini78 Martini78 is offline
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Re: Getting Stuck

Nah... It's moving the lower body out of the way because your hands are too inside. I'll look for some links from PGA instructors...

Article: Swing Path - Golfer's Guide ®

That's all I can find right now. Golf Digest seems to be down.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

If that is in fact what Roger said, I disagree with him entirely. It's a LACK of letting the right shoulder go low.

If the upper body leans toward the target on the way forward, you'll get stuck every time.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
If that is in fact what Roger said, I disagree with him entirely. It's a LACK of letting the right shoulder go low.

If the upper body leans toward the target on the way forward, you'll get stuck every time.
Roger did say that in one of the threads on the golf channel forum. It can be seen with many of the pros when they push it right or hit a duck hook. Not always the only reason but when dropping the right shoulder too much it causes one to come too far inside with hip rotation and the club gets stuck. I've seen Furyk and Vijay and countless other ones do this very thing. You might attribute this as a cause by early hip rotation but it still causes the right shoulder to drop and if it gets too low it can happen.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:09 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Whoa whoa whoa.. Duck hooks yes, pushes yes, but most people who get stuck are NOT pushing it left. The clubface is left open and the ball cuts even more. Big misconception. There's a difference between a push and a push fade. A push can have the right shoulder go down, a push fade has the right shoulder comming up and is getting stuck.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:21 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
Whoa whoa whoa.. Duck hooks yes, pushes yes, but most people who get stuck are NOT pushing it left. The clubface is left open and the ball cuts even more. Big misconception. There's a difference between a push and a push fade. A push can have the right shoulder go down, a push fade has the right shoulder comming up and is getting stuck.
But wouldn't a push fade result from not closing the face with the swing coming around. One can do many types of manipulations trying to save a swing that could lead to that. Again I'm not a teaching pro as yourself and I respect your info but perhaps it would be better if you exchanged opinions with Roger Gunn and then gave me your view. You can always get to Roger at GolfLevels.com. I'm not saying necessarily Roger is any better or worse in teaching experience but I try to absorb as much info as I can to use in furthering my improvement and trying to understand what I do wrong and how to correct it. I do agree with your analysis in general but as Roger pointed out there are exceptions to every swing.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 05:47 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by coralpro View Post
But wouldn't a push fade result from not closing the face with the swing coming around. One can do many types of manipulations trying to save a swing that could lead to that. Again I'm not a teaching pro as yourself and I respect your info but perhaps it would be better if you exchanged opinions with Roger Gunn and then gave me your view. You can always get to Roger at GolfLevels.com. I'm not saying necessarily Roger is any better or worse in teaching experience but I try to absorb as much info as I can to use in furthering my improvement and trying to understand what I do wrong and how to correct it. I do agree with your analysis in general but as Roger pointed out there are exceptions to every swing.
I have a lot of respect for Roger. He and I have had many conversations online. I know I come off much more aggressive than he does and that's perfectly alright. I'm not here to offend anyone but Rogers got that down to an art form.

The clubface determines initial direction. The direction the clubhead is traveling determines the spin.

A dead straight push is an inside to out swing path with an square face relative to that path.

A duck hook is an insie out swing path with a closed clubface relative to that path.

A push fade is an inside to inside path with the clubface open relative to that path.

Getting stuck is really where the clubhead is still trying to come from the inside while the hands are leading the clubhead and trying to come back inside. This causes the path to be much sharper from inside to inside. It feels powerful because of how long you're able to PULL in the forward swing, which is why people do it. It feels powerful.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 07:05 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
I have a lot of respect for Roger. He and I have had many conversations online. I know I come off much more aggressive than he does and that's perfectly alright. I'm not here to offend anyone but Rogers got that down to an art form.

The clubface determines initial direction. The direction the clubhead is traveling determines the spin.

A dead straight push is an inside to out swing path with an square face relative to that path.

A duck hook is an insie out swing path with a closed clubface relative to that path.

A push fade is an inside to inside path with the clubface open relative to that path.

Getting stuck is really where the clubhead is still trying to come from the inside while the hands are leading the clubhead and trying to come back inside. This causes the path to be much sharper from inside to inside. It feels powerful because of how long you're able to PULL in the forward swing, which is why people do it. It feels powerful.
I respect your honesty and again I would say these are generalities to specific causes but not without exceptions and I think that was what Roger was referring to. Just like my normal miss is either a heavy fade or weak slice or a straight pull. Roger and I disagreed about a straight pull as he felt that was a total rareity and that generally it is a power fade or a draw. He said most people misdiagnose the reality of the ball flight. I told him it was dead straight but left of target line maybe 20-30 yds. I've hit any type of ball flight in the past with an over the top swing so I know there are exceptions to every generalized rule. I know this must drive instructors/teaching pros nuts trying to give advice without seeing a swing because hackers may swing every which way and then still perhaps catch the ball nice with some type of manipulative hand or wrist move. I do thank you for your advice and hope you will offer help at your discretion in the future.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 09:28 PM
Tradewind4 Tradewind4 is offline
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
The clubface determines initial direction. The direction the clubhead is traveling determines the spin.
Ringer I think you got it backwards. The clubface determines the spin, the swingpath or the direction the clubhead is traveling determines the initial direction.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 10:09 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tradewind4 View Post
Ringer I think you got it backwards. The clubface determines the spin, the swingpath or the direction the clubhead is traveling determines the initial direction.
Common misconception, but it has been proven wrong.

Think about why a pool ball goes in a different direction than the cue ball if it's struck to the side.
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Old August 9th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Tradewind4 Tradewind4 is offline
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
Common misconception, but it has been proven wrong.
Well I'd like to see the proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
Think about why a pool ball goes in a different direction than the cue ball if it's struck to the side.
Please enlighten me and the rest of this forum as to why a pool ball goes in a different direction. It's not because of the Magnus Effect you mentioned in another thread is it?
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Old August 9th, 2007, 10:46 PM
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Re: Getting Stuck

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringer View Post
Common misconception, but it has been proven wrong.

Think about why a pool ball goes in a different direction than the cue ball if it's struck to the side.
I don't think that it is completely cut-and-dried one way or the other. A glancing blow, a la the pool balls, do indeed have a lot to do with determining initial direction -- that is the angle the clubface makes. But, on the other hand, an non-square clubface does add the sidespin, too. How else do you explain the people who hit fades and draws by changing nothing else except aiming left or right, and then opening or closing the face, respectively. No change in swingpath, no change in wrist or forearm rotation, no holding the face more open or quickly snapping it shut -- just opening or closing the face?

It is a combination of effects -- an open face shoots the ball to the right of the swingpath and adds right sidespin (for a right-handed golfer).

However, if you had a strong outside-in swingpath with an open face, you get some initial velocity left from the outside-in, some initial velocity right from the open face, and some initial sidespin. Whether the ball starts off right or left depends on the severity of the openness of the face and how much outside-in it is.

Finally, Ringer. I'd like to see the source where "it has been proven wrong." Could you please post the source? Thanks.
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