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Old October 15th, 2007, 08:00 AM
decroo21 decroo21 is offline
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Advantages to taking a divot

I tend to pick it clean off the fairway about 80% of the time. I was just wondering if there were any other real advantages to taking a divot other than it creates backspin.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 02:33 PM
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

its the way to strike the ball.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 02:55 PM
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

The reason players are encouraged to take divots is because when they do, they avoid one of the more costly mistakes. The mistake I speak of is hitting up through the ball, which can result in thin shots, which the player may try to fix with hand manipulations, and that starts a chain reaction of bad mechanics. You definitely want to be hitting down.

Now, that said, if your swing's bottom is right at the grass level and ball you are not losing anything, so long as you are not hitting up in anyway. Nicklaus said he used to be able to practice all day on a patch of grass the size of a shoe box when his swing was on because he didn't take a divot. Nicklaus wrote "The idea is to catch the ball at the lowest point of the club's apex, where the arc of the swing is widest. If you're taking a big divot, the club obviously is still moving downward."

There have been others, Harvey Pennick lists them in his little red book, some of the greatest golfers in history didn't take very large divots at all.

The spin is generated by the loft (the dynamic loft if you deloft through impact) of the club and the speed. A little tiny bit extra comes moving downward through the ball, but ball-clubface impact is only all of 0.0005 seconds. That isn't much time to impact a lot of extra spin -- the ball leaves the clubface very, very quickly. A properly struck "picked" ball probably only have a half a percent, maybe a full 1% less spin than than a properly struck ball that takes a large divot. That's not a lot at all! Most players cannot control the amount of spin to within a percent or two, so the amount lost from picking is insignificant compared to the range of spins generated by a normal inconsistent human player.

Now, it does take more practice and precision to be a picker. Consider two golfers who miss by moving the bottom of their swings back half an inch. For the picker, whose goal is to try to have the ball at the very bottom of the swing, this could be huge. This could be a thinned ball or any of whole host of problems. But, for the large divot taker, the shot will probably be fine. It won't be perfect, but because the bottom of his swing is already forward of the ball, but he won't lose as much by missing backward.

And, really, I think that this is the main reason why it is emphasized so much. It is really adding an element of forgiveness into the swing, in that the bottom of your swing doesn't have to be perfect every time to hit decent shots. Another big reason is that hitting down promotes acceleration into the ball. Just like you don't want to hit up, it is death to decelerate into impact. Acceleration is stable, deceleration is unstable, and you don't want an unstable clubhead going into impact. Your shots could miss anywhere. But, you can accelerate the clubhead even though its path will only brush the ground. It is just easier to remember to accelerate by hitting down and through the ground.

Those are my theories anyway. The physics of the situation doesn't change as much as people really think. I suspect that the main reason people don't get as much spin from a divot-taking strike as a picking strike is that they don't accelerate through the impact as much when picking. It doesn't mean that they can't accelerate as much when picking, it's just that they don't. Also, my theory is that taking a divot adds a little forgiveness so that the bottom of the swing doesn't have to be perfect every time.

One can be a picker, but it requires a little more precision and exactness than a digger. And, for most people, their game already lacks precision and exactness, so taking divots lowers the needed precision a little bit. I think because of that, a picker needs more practice. The good news is that a picker can practice off of those awful driving range mats and not have the change their swing! See, there is at least one advantage to being a picker.

Last edited by Bignose : October 15th, 2007 at 03:00 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 04:11 PM
decroo21 decroo21 is offline
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignose View Post
The reason players are encouraged to take divots is because when they do, they avoid one of the more costly mistakes. The mistake I speak of is hitting up through the ball, which can result in thin shots, which the player may try to fix with hand manipulations, and that starts a chain reaction of bad mechanics. You definitely want to be hitting down.

Now, that said, if your swing's bottom is right at the grass level and ball you are not losing anything, so long as you are not hitting up in anyway. Nicklaus said he used to be able to practice all day on a patch of grass the size of a shoe box when his swing was on because he didn't take a divot. Nicklaus wrote "The idea is to catch the ball at the lowest point of the club's apex, where the arc of the swing is widest. If you're taking a big divot, the club obviously is still moving downward."

There have been others, Harvey Pennick lists them in his little red book, some of the greatest golfers in history didn't take very large divots at all.

The spin is generated by the loft (the dynamic loft if you deloft through impact) of the club and the speed. A little tiny bit extra comes moving downward through the ball, but ball-clubface impact is only all of 0.0005 seconds. That isn't much time to impact a lot of extra spin -- the ball leaves the clubface very, very quickly. A properly struck "picked" ball probably only have a half a percent, maybe a full 1% less spin than than a properly struck ball that takes a large divot. That's not a lot at all! Most players cannot control the amount of spin to within a percent or two, so the amount lost from picking is insignificant compared to the range of spins generated by a normal inconsistent human player.

Now, it does take more practice and precision to be a picker. Consider two golfers who miss by moving the bottom of their swings back half an inch. For the picker, whose goal is to try to have the ball at the very bottom of the swing, this could be huge. This could be a thinned ball or any of whole host of problems. But, for the large divot taker, the shot will probably be fine. It won't be perfect, but because the bottom of his swing is already forward of the ball, but he won't lose as much by missing backward.

And, really, I think that this is the main reason why it is emphasized so much. It is really adding an element of forgiveness into the swing, in that the bottom of your swing doesn't have to be perfect every time to hit decent shots. Another big reason is that hitting down promotes acceleration into the ball. Just like you don't want to hit up, it is death to decelerate into impact. Acceleration is stable, deceleration is unstable, and you don't want an unstable clubhead going into impact. Your shots could miss anywhere. But, you can accelerate the clubhead even though its path will only brush the ground. It is just easier to remember to accelerate by hitting down and through the ground.

Those are my theories anyway. The physics of the situation doesn't change as much as people really think. I suspect that the main reason people don't get as much spin from a divot-taking strike as a picking strike is that they don't accelerate through the impact as much when picking. It doesn't mean that they can't accelerate as much when picking, it's just that they don't. Also, my theory is that taking a divot adds a little forgiveness so that the bottom of the swing doesn't have to be perfect every time.

One can be a picker, but it requires a little more precision and exactness than a digger. And, for most people, their game already lacks precision and exactness, so taking divots lowers the needed precision a little bit. I think because of that, a picker needs more practice. The good news is that a picker can practice off of those awful driving range mats and not have the change their swing! See, there is at least one advantage to being a picker.
Ok I realize it would probably help to learn to take a divot. But after picking for the last 3 years, will this be difficult to adapt into? Is there a better way to get the feel other than going to the range and just hitting? Also, it seems as if trying to take a divot would create a huge divot because I'm coming right down on the ball.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 07:59 PM
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

Quote:
Originally Posted by decroo21 View Post
Ok I realize it would probably help to learn to take a divot. But after picking for the last 3 years, will this be difficult to adapt into? Is there a better way to get the feel other than going to the range and just hitting? Also, it seems as if trying to take a divot would create a huge divot because I'm coming right down on the ball.
Do you practice on range mats? That might be part of the problem...
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Old October 15th, 2007, 08:28 PM
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

Quote:
Originally Posted by decroo21 View Post
Ok I realize it would probably help to learn to take a divot. But after picking for the last 3 years, will this be difficult to adapt into? Is there a better way to get the feel other than going to the range and just hitting? Also, it seems as if trying to take a divot would create a huge divot because I'm coming right down on the ball.
Please don't take this as aggressive or mean or anything (tone isn't conveyed well with just writing), but did you even read what I said? If you're comfortable picking, you really aren't giving anything up. That's what I wrote all that out to say. Again, some of the greatest golfers in the game were pickers. Nicklaus sure didn't lose anything by being a picker.

Picking takes a little more precision, but if that's what you've done for the last 3 years, there is no reason to change unless something is seriously wrong. If there is something seriously wrong, then you probably should investigate what that is. Video analysis can do wonders for this. But, picking by itself is not a flaw. You give up nothing at all by being a picker and not a digger.
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Old October 16th, 2007, 12:27 AM
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

Quote:
Originally Posted by decroo21 View Post
Ok I realize it would probably help to learn to take a divot. But after picking for the last 3 years, will this be difficult to adapt into? Is there a better way to get the feel other than going to the range and just hitting? Also, it seems as if trying to take a divot would create a huge divot because I'm coming right down on the ball.
When I was trying to learn to hit down on the ball and take a divot this drill did wonders for me. I hit balls with a golf ball underneath my back heel (for a righty, the right heel. This forces your weight onto your front foot, you'll immediately feel what a proper strike feels like. It feels so much more solid than picking the ball.
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Old October 16th, 2007, 01:37 AM
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Martini78 Martini78 is offline
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Re: Advantages to taking a divot

Quote:
Originally Posted by decroo21 View Post
Also, it seems as if trying to take a divot would create a huge divot because I'm coming right down on the ball.
The big thing to keep in mind is that you don't change the arc of your swing. IOW, don't drop the club straight into the ground. To take a divot after the ball, you actually want the same arc; The arc just bottoms out an inch or two in front of the location of the golf ball.

Chopping down on the ball will create all sorts of other problems, like weak flares out to the right (for a righty) and shanks.

I used to pick everything. I made a timing change and set my wrists a little later in my backswing... it's enabled me to hit ball-first and take divots. I think the only advantage I've gotten is the fact that impact is a little less fickle and I probably spin the ball a little more.
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