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How do you decide how far to lean over? Is this called the spine angle?

Spine angle is the term typically used for the angle you observe in a golfer's profile when the golfer is between you and his target. (down-the-line view)

Spine tilt is term typically used for the angle you observe in a golfer's profile when the golf ball is between you and the golfer. (face-on view)

The first question is a bit harder to answer!

I had this discussion on another forum. I started a thread to discuss how far to lean over for a one plane swing. Supposedly one is supposed to lean over more for a one plane swing but one person showed a sequence comparing a one planer to a two planer and there was virtually no difference. There seems to not be a how far answer. I just flex my knees drop my arms and reach the club out to the ball. You want to reach out to a point where you still feel very balanced, not on the heels or toes, just very comfortable and balanced I think.

A possible gauge would be to stand erect with your arms straight out in front of you with wrists straight and relaxed, no hinging up or down, flex your knees a little, stick your butt out just a little and then bend over at the hips until the club hits the ground. Shift around a little til you feel very balanced. I guess one person could be more or less bent over depending on the physiology. Short or long arms, short or long legs, torso length, etc.

Here is that swing sequence picture with Ernie Els (one planer) and Sophie Gustafson (two planer):

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/547...riverdlbt5.jpg

if you have the proper fitted clubs your lean over angle is pretty much set..

What makes the swings a one planer and a two planer?

The textbook says the lie of the driver is about 60 degrees and the most consistent, powerful swing is at 90 degrees (straight out). Consequently, a spine tilt of 30 degrees should be ideal.

If you concentrate on swinging around your body so your arms follow the plane at 90 degrees (or as close to this as is the MOST comfortable to you). Then lean over and address the ball so that plane makes contact, you will have the best angle for your swing. From tis position it is a lot easier to maintain your spine angle through the entire swing.

What this says to me is that the arms at address are perpendicular to the torso. Is that what you mean?

I think the most telling factor is the lift of the arms. Ernie does not lift above the shoulder plane. In fact ideally for most one planer is that the left arm line up with the shoulder. Sophie lets her left arm lift up above the shoulder plane and therefore the two planes. One for the shoulder and one for the left arm. For Ernie one plane for both the shoulder and the left arm.

There is no answer to your question. It is all about your height, build, and the relatioship of your height and to hand ratio. This is where proper club fitting comes into play.

For a two-plane swing assuming your clubs are fitted correctly you let your arms hang naturally down, slight bend in the knees and bend over from the waist to grip the club with the sole of the club square to the ground horizon.

For a one-plane swing the arms and club shaft form a straight line and the ratios change between shaft length and lie angle in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve long What this says to me is that the arms at address are perpendicular to the torso. Is that what you mean?

That is pretty close to true especially when using the driver. In fact the setup back angle for the driver is what I try to duplicate for all clubs. How high or low you like your club is a factor as well.

The object is to find the plane you are comfortable (important) during the entire swing. That way the downswing and the follow through are on the same plane.

What I do when I practice is stand straight, arm extended with the club pointing out. Then I do a baseball swing trying to mirror the downswing, the follow through and make the left wrist flat at the contact point.

I try to duplicate the same back angle I have with the driver for each club so the short irons are closer and my hands are lower, but I find that at the top of my backswing I am comfortable and my natural downward swing is going right though the ball.

From the setup position swing back and forth several times and feel the same swing as the baseball swing. For me if I am on plane, the rest of the body (hips, knees, and feet) just makes the transition naturally.

This method (for me) works better if I use a single plane swing. This may be a matter of taste, for some golfers are very good with multi-plane swings.

What I have found personally is I don't have to steer the club. Also by starting with a textbook shoulder move at the start of the backswing I naturally maintain a triangle with my arms and roll my hands to the proper top position.

What was happening before was if I was too upright my contact and control was inconsistent. Now my body’s natural geometry controls the swing plane and all I do is make sure my setup is good and I swing across my body.

Bob Golf, it seems to me that you must lean over quite far to achieve the position you describe. And the shorter the club is, the more you lean over? Can you post a picture or drawing showing what you do?

90 degrees is at 3 o'clock so 30 degrees is 1 o'clock. I am a terrible artist but I will see if I can photo shop something.

Normal length driver has a lie about 55 degrees up from horizontal. If you want your spine angle perpendicular to the swingplane, then you have to lean over 55 degress from vertical, which is really a lot bent over. Right?

Also, I'm not sure there is more power or control when the swingplane is perpendicular to the spine, except in putting. For putting, it is great to lean over far enough to keep the shoulders from rising or falling in relation to the rib cage. It's very accurate.

By my math 90-55 is 35. Which is a little more than 1 o'clock.

I was looking at Tigers swing setup and it looked like his spine looks to lean about 1 o'clock, he also holds his hands low which makes him more upright.

Look, this is just a guideline. Mathematically if you want maximum efficiency in your swing bend so you can swing around your body at the optimum angle. Bend at the hips to about 1 o'clock let your arms hand and recreate your grip. This is a natural setup to make the backswing and follow through mirror each other.
If this is uncomfortable because of physical differences and/or club lie or whatever it is a free world. Instead of debating the issue try my suggestion. If you hate it go back to what you find best for you.