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It's really a way to help you overcome your "actual swing yips" and rely more on your instincts rather than "placing" the club into position. The end goal is always to swing freely. It should also help your leverage with the ground, an issue not yet discussed, but is a large part of why you release early. But setup is the first step, and in my opinion, further adjustment there is prerequisite. In the attached image, less bend at the hips and more bend at the knees, then adjust your balance, would put you in a more athletic position at setup.

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ScratchDTLset2.JPG (13.1 KB, 47 views)

OK CG thanks, I shall give it a try. I always thought I can bend more but the picture shows I am bending quite a lot already. You are saying bend less. OK.

No CG picture indicates you are bending (well your not bending) by hunching your back and shoulders. See that big curve of the spine and shoulders slumped forward?

The bend comes from the hip sockets, with a nice straight back and erect shoulders. Try this in the comfort of your home. Stand up with your back against a wall. Stand nice and erect like your momma tried to teach you when you were a kid with your back nice and straight with your shoulders and head touching the wall. In other words proper posture making the spine and neck nice and straight.

Then what I teach is have a club in your hands holding across where your legs intersect the hips just about at the crotch level Press it in. This is where you bend from. Now just simple bend over from that spot and leave the back and shoulders nice and straight. Last just let your arms hang naturally. Now you are in the proper set up. All that is left to do is adjust the weight between your heels and toes.

It will feel really awkward at first until you get use to it.

Another dynamic which I learned years ago from a physical therapist is to stand straight and roll your hips under and forward, getting them directly under your spine, flex your knees, then adjust your balance. This will put the load of your torso on the quads rather than your lower back. It is the one main posture adjustment which has enabled me to deal with chronic lower back strain all my adult life, and is equivelant to "bending at the hips". Also, raising the head, as I mentioned earlier, will help get the upper back straight.

OK, thank you both. Now my paper is full of things to do now. 1. ball position - 2 inches from left heel , 2. half swing going back 3. aim straight 4. good posture - straight back , 5. Finish high 6. weight in the middle ( balls and heels ) 7.tuck my right elbow coming down 8. an inch further away from the ball 9. swing easy. 10. don't cock the wrist going back OK I can do this..

One step at a time scratch. You put all that in your head, and your freezing problem over the ball will be amplified and make you stiff as a board.

What I am suggesting scratch, is getting you setup to the ball properly, and we are not there yet. If you will go back and review the thread, this is something to spend a good deal of time on, even in your home, meditatively. Before getting into your swing checklist, it is vital to get your setup checklist ingrained, so mixing the two together will cause brainfreeze as dbc suggests.. There is more to it than what has been discussed so far. It may be you are NOT standing too close to the ball; we'll find that out, but we are not even to the point of addressing the ball yet. Once we get the DTL angles looking better, there is one more drill without holding the club which will help with understanding the core move of the swing and help you determine your range of motion. After that, there is a drill of actually hitting balls which will help you learn your optimum swing path, learn how the right side releases, and how to use the weight/momentum of the club to your advantage. So, what I am saying is SLOW DOWN! Stay focused on posture and weight distribution. Let's get that right then move on. If you will notice, other than the two "get it out of your system" execises, the only use of the club I have mentioned is to use it as a shoulder guide in order to get your shoulders square. Now back to DTL angles. Here I've posted S. Garcia with a short iron and a driver. Compare his angles to yours. Note the angle of his lower leg from ankle joint to knee joint. It is more pronounced with the short iron, but clearly visible even with the longer club. It is this knee flex which is how you reach the ball, rather than reaching from the shoulders or bending over at the waist. You should be able to attain this position by all that has been discussed so far; flex the knees more, raise the head, then seek balance.

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	Garcia Setup.JPG (15.7 KB, 1 views)
	Garcia Set.JPG (13.7 KB, 37 views)

Did you choose Sergio on purpose? Because I think my setup is more like Trevino or Pavin.( 2 quarkiest swings in golf minus Furyk and my body is more like these two than Sergio) Anyway, while I'm waiting for the weekend. What you guys ( CG & DB ) think of Stack & Tilt? For me it's just a bit less weight shift to right ( 50-50 ) but it feels comfortable. Any thought on S&T?

Wow! I'm really enjoying this as I've often wondered about getting some thoughts on my own swing. I suffer from the over the top path myself at times. Due to nerve damage I have probably "built" my swing a little different than most but reading the comments of CG & dereck, makes me think I could get some help too!

Scratch, sorry to bust into your lesson here but this is very interesting. I'll keep reading and see what I can apply to myself.

I chose Sergio Garcia because he has one of the best setups on tour IMO (and he is one of the best ball strikers), and the principles we have been discussing are pretty much universal, regardless of body type or swing style. Here are Pavin and Trevino. Those principles are evident in both (don't let Trevino's pant leg distract you; look at the shadow which reveals his lower leg angle).
I'll take a pass on S&T...just too much movement downstairs which complicates learning and execution, so I haven't experimented with it and am not qualified to comment.

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	CapturePavinSet.JPG (11.1 KB, 35 views)
	CaptureTrevinoSet.JPG (25.6 KB, 1 views)

Yeah that is what is wrong. Trevino was a slicer/fader. He aimed 30 degrees open to the target line, sent it down the left side, and hope he did not run out of room on the right with his fade. You do not want to emulate Trevino, Palmer, or Furyk.

No problem, it's an open forum. There are many OTT like us. We all can use some tips and lessons that works.

OK - 2 weeks after..

First a soap box. While I'm working on my swing change, I realized that my swing isn't just a overnight invention. It's a historical adjustment and complex set of band-aid that I patched together over 26 years. Yes, a perfect swing is good but it only works when you have flexible body with some regular maintenance range time also with some time to warm up before the round. The fact is that when you have a job and a family and to play golf, many times you are lucky if your buddy call you 1 hour before Sunday morning tee time because one guy didn't show and you get to the tee 5 minutes before tee-off. In NY, it's not unusual to tee-off in sub-zero weather with only a hot coffee in your hand. I found out my ball position is in the middle because that's where I hit when I'm stiff and OTT before I get warmed up which sometimes doesn't happen until 15th hole.

OK back to the new swing. A control is a good thing but I find out it also means I can lose it left and right. With OTT, I never had to worry about right side after I got rid of my slice. In any case, this is what I worked on and found out.

Ball position inside left foot : This is good and I can do this. Seems to help to release my hip more.
Ball away from me : This is hard, I have very short arms and that's why I play regular length club with regular lie despite being 5' 6"
Shorter backswing : I tried to swing halfway and quarter way but video shows I still go almost to 180. Keep working on it.
Bending knees more : Yes
Getting more upright : OK
Hit with hips instead of your shoulder : Now this is close to impossible. I think I'm doing it but video shows otherwise. It only happens with my practice swing.

Not quite there I am sure but I want you gents' opinion ( CG & DB ) whether I made any progress. Cheers!

YouTube - My swing 2-4

Ok let's not overcook this idea. Finding the proper distance to the ball is pretty easy I assume you can find on the web. But here is a short version take proper setup by bending at the hip leg socket, let your arms hang down naturally and put a club in your hands with it soled flat. What ever distance that is, is the right distance. Much easier to show someone than tell someone.



Ok this one is important and what you should work on the most after you get the distance thing worked out.

I will try to teach you a feel, it is hard to do, but this one is fairly easy to describe. Just stand up where you are right now, and take your golf stance without a club and just let your arms hang.

Now imagine me standing right next to you on your right side about a foot away. Now while retaining your stance take your left hand and shake hands with me.

Did your hips turn and feel your weight shift to the inside of your right foot? Good that is what I am after.

Now I just moved over to your left side. Shake hands with me using your right hand. How did you get there? Hopefully all you did is shift your weight left, turned your hips to the left, and you shoulders and arm followed naturally.

That is the feel you are looking for to start your back swing, and more importantly your down swing. It starts by you shifting your weight to the left and turning your hips. Forget about the arms and hands, they will naturally follow the .lead of the lower body. you don't have to do anything conscious with the arms and hands.

OK thanks, I've done that. No problem.

I am not a stranger to this drill and I can do this with or without a club in my hand, no problem. I just can't do it with a ball to hit. As you recall my swing with and without a ball to hit are quite different. I tried to swing real easy. I tried to close my eyes but it doesn't work as long as there is a ball to hit. Not an easy problem to fix, I'm sure. But I am looking for a drill, thought or image that can help me. CG's advice on beating a bucket seemed to help me until I took a video. I'm sure it helped but It didn't change my swing much.