A little too upright, in my opinion probably a result of a pretty big hip bend. You might notice he takes it back somewhat outside which increases his verticality. He makes up for it with a subtle move to a lower plane on the downswing which puts him in good position through impact. This is a fairly common way to swing in two planes and there are many very good golfers who have similar moves. He might benefit from standing a bit taller and taking the club back a little more on the line; but, my guess is he is pretty good.
Bob
Sorry to be so long scratch. I've been thinking about your "predicament" which is consistent throughout the thread, that of not being able to perform new moves when a ball is in the way. This is very much a mental issue, and not at all uncommon. Before getting into that however, a few other thoughts:
When posting video, please consider signing up and posting here because the software is designed for swing viewing :SwingAcademy.com
Camera angles: Here are some suggestions for more accurate viewing. It appears the camera is close to the ground. Try to get it up about sternum high, or at least waist high. For the frontal view, position the camera perpendicular to the target line directly opposite the ball (that looks pretty good). DTL, again, about mid chest high on the target line directly facing the target. Now, whether the "target" should be the end of flight target or the intended line of launch, I am not sure; someone with more camera knowledge than I maybe can answer that.
Drills.
Just for clarification, I am working on a 3 part drill for you, but have only given part one so far, which is the indoor balance, weight distribution step. Step 2 will likely blow your mind, but it's important step 1 is understood first. Any chance you can video that exercise? I also suggested the in-line drill which dbc has been discussing, but it is seperate from this other drill. (Do stay with the in-line drill; there is much to learn from it once you get it.)
When postying video, it is most helpful to have a frontal and down the line view for the same swing (requiring two cameras), but two different swings, one frontal and the other DTL will be better than having just one or the other.
Okay, now for messing with your mind. The first and most obvious way for you to see quick improvement is to redefine the top of your swing, but your mind is not yet convinced (Ironicly, you will not be convinced until you actually experience more efficient ball striking). Forget everything else for a moment, and consider just one factor illustrated here:
While you are releasing a little better, still your hands are near fully released. It's difficult to tell with this camera angle, but I'd say the ball should be about 6 inches in front of where the clubface is to have optimum contact, and the hands would move very little from where they are now. In other words, the clubhead is traveling at it's peak at this point in your swing. The red lines indicate your arm position and where the arms should be based on your amount of release of the hands. The green line shows the amount of swing you have left AFTER maximum speed. So, if you got to maximum speed at this point in the swing, swing back that much less, and you will have more power at the ball. In other words, think of your swing length as measured from the top of your current swing to the point in this photo. That is all the length you need to achieve maximum speed. Does this make sense?
There is a lot more to ascertain from the photo, most notably the left arm/torso disconnect which is a large contributor to swinging across the ball (pull shot), and how your weight is carried on the right foot, but I'd rather move back to set-up, a root cause of your difficulties. I have to run for now, so I'll take that up in another post.
This compares your set-up angles with those of a well known (infamous?) professional. Most importantly, note the leg lines. The pro's knees favor the inside, while your left knee is predisposed toward the target.This creates excessive tilt of the hips, spine, and shoulders, making it very difficlut to rotate and transfer your weight efficientlly. Note ball position and arm angles as well, and how the pro is set-up squarely facing the target line.
I understand you have the thought of getting a head start on hip release by setting up this way, but you are actually helping to prevent it with this set-up. Now look at your "top" photo.
The blue lines represent a more desirable position for the legs at the top. Note especially how the left leg has not folded in toward the target. Your hips have coiled, but due to your set-up, they have coiled back and down to the right with your weight on the outside of the right foot, and I suspect favoring the heel. There is no way to put oomph into your change of direction from this position, thus the early release.
In one of his popular videos, Trevino stated you have to have very strong legs to swing like he does, and that is correct; he has a lot of leg action in order to make it work. Whether you decide to make changes in this regard is of course your choice, but I think you will be on the road to improved ball striking by improving set-up and swinging within your most effective range of motion.
Last edited by crossgrain : December 12th, 2009 at 10:35 PM.
Thanks CG.
1. I registered for Swingacademy, so I'll use it in the future.
2. Camera angle : My wife sprained her ankle and couldn't play a while so I had to put down the video on the ground
3. Drill # 1 : I am doing it but can't take video inside of apartment ( tried but too dark )
Somehow I can't see your pictures ( Blue lines Red lines ) I don't know why.
But I am trying to understand what you're saying without looking at those pictures. Any other way I can look at those pictures?
Post # 62 above won't let me edit for some reason, so the appropriate pic is here. here. Sorry scratch; don't know what happened. I had good photos when I reviewed and after I posted. Anyway, back to thumbnails, which require logging in to view.
Convincing your intellect scratch, is only the first step. It may not be all that is necessary to overcome your "ball in the way" issues, but it is a start. In that light, understanding how your set-up is limiting your swing results is key, and the comparison below shows it clearly. See how far behind the ball line the pro gets? By "pre-setting" your hips, you are not able to turn properly in order to get behind the ball, or make an efficient weight transfer.
CG, somehow I can see all the pictures now. And all I can say is WOW. Let me digest it for a while. I am doing a setup drill and I am trying to set up everything square and bring my left knee in as well as putting my ball 6 more inches away. I had some good drives and some slices today( which I haven't seen for a while ), we'll see how I can make this work. Thanks.
This is my first attemp for swingacademy. Let's see if this works. Sorry for short ending.
*sigh* Take the club away in one piece (don't break the wrists, vato)...and stay behind the ball. Your first move is to pick the club up with your hands, which is wrong. Move the triangle back with dead hands - not active, not limp, just dead. And stay behind the ball...not only is your head moving forward but you're casting as well. Have you ever had a lesson or are you self-taught?
*sigh* Take the club away in one piece (don't break the wrists, vato)...and stay behind the ball. Your first move is to pick the club up with your hands, which is wrong. Move the triangle back with dead hands - not active, not limp, just dead. And stay behind the ball...not only is your head moving forward but you're casting as well. Have you ever had a lesson or are you self-taught?
Shade
26 years of self-taught shade. From 120+ to 73 ( my best score to date ). The start of this thread was "I look good with practice swing but not when I have a ball in front of me " then CG and DB said my setup is all wrong. So I'm building my swing up from the beginning again. So far, it's been very positive in many points.
- Ball position close to left foot than in the middle encourages release of hips
- Ball position away from me - discourage OTI & OTT swing path
- More Knee flex, less bent waist and neutral weight gives me better balance
But I haven't been able to control the beast which activates itself when it sees a ball
*sigh* Take the club away in one piece (don't break the wrists, vato)...and stay behind the ball. Your first move is to pick the club up with your hands, which is wrong. Move the triangle back with dead hands - not active, not limp, just dead. And stay behind the ball...not only is your head moving forward but you're casting as well. Have you ever had a lesson or are you self-taught?
Shade
All true and then some. His initial move puts the club on an out path and disconnects his left shoulder. If he tries to correct those issues without correcting set-up however, he will be developing more incorrect feels which will have to be overcome later.
I know set-up is one of the most boring parts of learning, but too much time cannot be spent on it to get it right.
CG, somehow I can see all the pictures now. And all I can say is WOW. Let me digest it for a while. I am doing a setup drill and I am trying to set up everything square and bring my left knee in as well as putting my ball 6 more inches away. I had some good drives and some slices today( which I haven't seen for a while ), we'll see how I can make this work. Thanks.
This is my first attemp for swingacademy. Let's see if this works. Sorry for short ending.
Thanks for posting at SA; it sure makes it easier to view.
Take your time digesting. Slow and thorough is best.
These pics taken from your latest swing post show once again how swing length is putting you in a very weak return swing position. Both are taken from your upswing. The first is about what should be your maximum length, or the top. Beyond that point, you have to strain to go further back, tensing up your muscles, and you lose positions. Note the body relative to the ball line and the head line. See how you shift toward the target and raise up trying to get that extra swing length? Now look at your right knee and right foot in the second frame. Do you see how the foot is on the toes? Ouch! You have little leverage with which to initiate your return swing because your weight is carried mostly on the left foot, or what is known as a reverse pivot.
Back to the first frame, or the "ideal" top position. If I were to reach into the picture and pull your right knee toward the camera so it is even with your left knee, then push it toward the target a bit, you would be in excellent position to return the club to the ball (the next two steps of the drill are designed to address this).
CG, thanks. These two pictures are excellent persuaders. Hope my hidden brain controller is buying this. In my mind ( as I am trying ) I am doing picture #1 but video shows #2. I'll keep trying setup drill and to shorten my backswing and squeeze my knees in. When do I get to drill #2? Do I have to pass a certain test?
When do I get to drill #2? Do I have to pass a certain test?
No, just want to be sure you have the first step down. Step 2 involves range of motion and, like I said, will likely challenge your thinking considerably regarding swing length. Soon.