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The thread on slicing the driver and the response by jcgolfpro explaining the various ways of 'slicing', 'hooking' and so on that are possible, prompted this thread.

Often people go to a pro, or start playing themselves, read a few books or whatever about how to do it and then go onto the course or practice tee. then something goes wrong, usually from the start

Most people of my acquaintance always practice with a ball, and whenever something goes wrong, they 'change something' or seek a tip or fix. One person says 'have a stronger grip', another says take the club back low, etc etc. Sometimes they try these things and they work!

I think the reason they work is because the 'thinking mind' is distracted and thus the whole swing proceeds smoothly without tension. But then something else goes wrong and the original tip no longer works, the mind is filled with the tension of correcting the new thing that is wrong......and so it goes.

As a conscious effort, the swing is too complicated to 'fix'. It is like talking to your legs to make them work while going down stairs.....you are in for a fall at some point. And yet the legs work fine by themselves , no? YOu do not stumble and then proceed to examine the whole mechanics of your walk to see what you should be doing next. YOu do not say, lift push and then place..or some such nonsense to get your legs working right.

This not to say mechanics do not have a place, but that place is inside knowing the whole of swing mechanics and how they work. It is my contention that most people can swing a golf club pretty well with a little help.....as long as a ball is not there. Of course, just like in walking, we will stumble sometimes...BUT..why is it that when we stumble in golf, we immediately start changing things before we even understand what it is we are doing first.

This is where [B]awareness[/B] comes in! Why not simply experiment and see what it is you are actually doing? Can you reproduce the shot that you hit 'wrong'? Do you know where your head is at impact, or where the clubhead finishes in your back swing and so on. This awareness, IMHO, isthe key to improvement. The added bonus (probably the most important thing) is that when you are aware and in learning mode, you are RELAXED and suddenly, the part of the brain that 'knows how to swing' is allowed to operate for itself. Once you know what you are doing, then perhaps a 'fix' or 'tip' may work. But tips number in the thousands......and they work....very occasionally......then it is on to tip number 4872.

What do you think?

Dude I really do believe you on this issue about awareness great tip.

swingezy,

I am "aware" that my golf swing is not perfect. No one's is. What makes my swing work for me is that it is repeatable. Some days the results of my repeatable swing are better than others. This usually occurs when a specific part of my swing isn't "repeatable" that day. For instance, my power fade may be more of a slice than a fade any given day, but I don't panic and try the 5 latest tips on how to cure a slice. I may spend a little extra time on the range working to find my old repeatable swing, but I don't make wholesale changes. That's robbing Peter to pay Paul, because making a swing change to correct an occasional slice throws the rest of my swing out of whack. By being aware of what is different about my swing today, I find it's much easier to correct it tomorrow.

I think there is a lot of 'wisdom' in there, league. First of all, that golf isn't about perfect, but we often get all tensed up because we do something that any pro does, on occasion, don't we. So being aware that we are just lil ole hummin beens is highly useful, I think!

Secondly that your swing is 'repeatable'. I would ask if you would elaborate on what that means and how you came upon it?

Thirdly that you experiment with one thing at a time. Someone I read said that the problem with most people practicing golf swings is that they practice something different every time

Fourthly, the realisation that using a fix to alter something only means that it changes the 'whole swing' and sooner or later is going to create new problems unless it is incorporated into the 'whole' which you already know works.

Finally, " By being aware of what is different about my swing today, I find it's much easier to correct it tomorrow."

Not only have you underlined the importance of awareness, you have demonstrated how to employ it effectively.

A big thanks for your great response

By "repeatable" I mean my swing is the same the majority of the time. I know what my good swing feels like and I know that if I feel that good swing, most of the time I will hit a decent shot. I'm a bit of a slasher, with a 3/4 back swing, and I generate my power from my lower body. My swing has been called unorthodox by teaching pros, but most that I've played with have advised against trying to change it. The reason many of the teaching pros give me...."you repeat the same swing every time. You hit the ball solidly, and you score well." I'll be forever trying to fine tune what I have, but you won't see me making big changes.

Thanks again.

How did you arrive at your repeatable swing...was it simply 'doing what works' for you? How do you know what you are doing? I mean by this, that many people do not know what they are doing, and so they cannot repeat anything. How do you know what to repeat...is it just a feel, or do you have other indicators????

I played competitive baseball (not softball ) until I was 35 and during that time I studied mechanics of the baseball swing. I learned that swinging the bat, using the lower body for power, the arms and shoulders for bat speed, and the wrists and hands for bat control was the key to be a successful hitter. When I took up golf I applied the same principles to my swing. I never had problems with power, or getting the body parts to work in unison, but until I understood how the position of my wrists and hands at impact affected my ball flight, I struggled with errant shots. I know if my set up is correct, my lower body and my arms and shoulders will make the same "repeatable" movements to impact. My timing of the wrist and hand position at impact is the crucial factor in hitting a golf ball well, just as it was in hitting a baseball.
I do consider myself a "feel" type player but my mechanics have been ingrained by my years of working on my baseball swing. I credit those years of working on my baseball swing with making my golf swing work for me now.

I've been playing for 5 years. In my mind, I believed I could not hit long irons.

Lucky for me I bought Ben Hogan's book a few months ago (The Five Fundamentals). I abondonded the grip lesson since I use a standard interlock. Anyhow, he talks continuously about the repeatable swing. You simply need one swing. One that when placed under pressure will perform.

Once I got to the section on stance relative to club length, lights went off.
All the clubs are the same! There is no club I can't hit if I position myself over
the ball correctly and apply the same swing to it.

I'm so ticked I've played for so long didn't know to change my stance. DUH!
Still though, I'm a 14 handicap and I've never paid for a lesson.

Yes, I believe that baseball and tennis have exactly the same mechanical swing principles as golf, except in a different plane. The body arms and hands swing around the centre on the base of a dynamic balanced base of the legs' feet. Pivoting/rotating around a centre is what give power and direction to the shot.

People often see the golf swing as 'different' but it is the same. The beauty is that once you have a repeatable swing, then golf is 'effortless'. The more 'effort' we use, the worse we play. This paradoxical aspect is what fools most of us mere mortals don't you think?

Isn't it amazing what such insights do for our game? In hindsight they look soo obvious, but until we find them out for ourselves the game is completely mysterious. I think it emphasises the need to challenge our habitual ways of looking at things by opening up awareness and by finding a model of the swing into which all the 'bits' can be put. GREAT STUFF enyo. With a repeatable swing that you 'understand' anything is possible in this game I feel.