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For me, what initiates the start of the downswing has always been a grey area for me. What are your magic moves that initiate the downswing?

good question. i have problems balooning the ball up in the air when i "drop my elbow to my side". i figure its because i am dipping my shoulder as well but i'm tweaking w/ it.

I do not really know if there are any 'magic moves' independent of the whole swing. I think that any mechanical thoughts of 'doing something' during the swing usually only interfere with the free flowing nature of the swing.

However, having said that, I think that awaremess of some useful aspect of the swing, is enough to keep the conscious mind occupied while that part of the brain that actually knows how to swing (the cerebellum) is allowed to do the job. One such focus can be on the role of the feet during the swing. All of our balance is felt there and during the back swing the weight should not pass the centre of the right foot.

The downswing seems to coincide with (or according to some be preceded by) by a shift of weight onto the inside of the left foot as this becomes the new pivot point for the down swing. Awareness of this can demonstrate whether the swing is in synch or not. The weight should be felt on the inside/centre of the left foot until well after impact when the foot may roll towards the outside as most of the body weight (90%+) is transferred there during the follow through.

I believe it is the shift of weight onto the left pivot point that causes the arms/hands to fall into 'the slot' but there should be a feeling of connectivity between the arms and body on the down swing. Some say the 'right elbow' coming into the body is the magic move, but I think it is an 'effect' of a proper weight shift onto the inside of the left foot at the top of the swing to commence the downswing.

Interested in your thoughts about this.

In my mind, my downswing starts with my knees!

The "kicking in" of the right knee during the downswing was supposedly Hogan's "secret move."

It seems evident and in studying slowmo-video and still pics of great players that the downswing is initiated by a weight shift on to the inside of the left foot to begin the downswing. The swing has two pivot points but ONE CENTRE.

This is a fundamental that is often overlooked I feel. How this shift is executed or felt is another matter. Clearly some feel it in the knees or in the action of the legs. One place where it can be felt very accurately is in the soles of the feet themselves.

This part of the body which provides the foundation for the whole swing is very sensitive but often ignored totally. I use the sensation of my left foot being 'grounded' for timing. But as is said, 'Whatever works for you" provided it is understood that it is the subtle (or for some "not-so-subtle") weight shift from right pivot to left pivot that should initiate the down swing and should begin before the club has reached the very top of its backswing trajectory. In other words the club is still going back when the weight shift is initiated. Any 'magic move' that was unrelated to this weight shift would seem to be off target. What do you think?

I clearly see what you are describing. By default my backswing is nearly at the peak of the backswing when I start to instantiate a slow but smooth weight shift... under optimal conditions. Usually I just mess up one thing or another up and mishit the ball no matter what. But that's the game... I guess?

not to be a smart alec here, but i think the magic move would be to see your local pga pro, which i'm going to do ASAP. lol.

stagday

I do think it is highly useful to think of it in non-judgemental and freeing ways such as "that is the game". But being aware of 'how' you are messing up is fundamental, and that can only come from awareness of what in fact you are doing rather than trying to 'fix' what is wrong, don't you feel. Opening up awareness is only possible when you look at your swing in non-judgemental ways and is the fast path to real learning for the physiological/physical body. The conceptual approach only gets knowledge against which you can compare your awareness of what you are doing. The cerebellum is in charge when one is aware and not 'thinking' and can swing perfectly.

I am not trying to get you to do anything do you understand. I am trying to persuade you to look at the swing in a different way. Do you follow? Of course you may not be interested and that is ok too. It is just that as someone said, "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got".

Yep, I get you all the way. However could you go into more depth about what you were talking about in the first paragraph? That would probably help clarify things to me, at least it seems.

I am willing to change, I want to be as good as I can be, but I feel like when I get out there, I'm a bit conservative in that I do the exact same thing every time, and when I "try" to change it, I can't...

Of course when we get on the course, the level of awareness drops as our egos take over and we start to 'try' to do stuff to the ball to get it to go where we want it to go. As a beginner this is very difficult because all our actions can only produce mistakes and when we make mistakes we get frustrated, tense, angry, etc which only increases the mistakes as we 'try harder'. The focus becomes more and more on the ball and less and less on the swing.
We start to try different things, holding our arms in a certain way or we remember some tip that someone gave us and we do something different every time we address the ball. Does this seem familiar? From your 'conservative' description it certainly does?

What is the solution? The game of golf is extremely paradoxical (just like life).
We are conditioned to 'try harder' and this leads only to failure in golf.
The cerebellum in the brain controls coordinated movement and if you can swing really well over a blade of grass or hit a tee out of the ground and finish on balance then you have a golf swing. YOu have to learn to trust this swing and not 'fix' anything or try anything different. Sometimes a 'tip' can distract our trying brain so that we do execute a good swing and we think it is because of the tip. It isn't. It is because we were focused on something useful and we allowed the swing to happen. Do you follow this so far? Have you any questions about it?

According to that Hogan book (Five Fundamentals), he says:

"The hips inaugurate the downswing."

This maybe so, but what is the 'purpose' of the hips moving first do you think? How does it fit into the overall swing? This seems to be very important rather than simply 'doing something with the hips' don't you feel?

IMHO, the movement of the hips is related to weight transfer at the top of the backswing. What do you think?

Same here. I start by moving to center with my body

just had my 1st real lesson from a pga pro. 3 major things to work on but can be solved. with the video, i can now see why shanking has been a problem. he said once i get these things ingrained, i'll never, ever shank again.

it was great. it was spose to be a 1/2 hr lesson, but he turned it into and hour and a half. best money i ever spent.

i also wanted to go on the launch monitor, but he suggested i work on these things first, cuz my swing speed is going to increase and no sense doing it til i've got these swing changes down-pat. at least he was honest about it and said i'd be back in a month or so.

so if anyone has not been to a pro yet and has been thinking about it, might be a good idea before investing more cash in clubs. anyway, it was a good time.

stagday