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O.K. I bring this topic up because I feel that this is by far the weakest part of my game, and I'm wondering what people's average GIR's per handicap are, as well as ways to improve hitting GIR's.

I think hitting GIR's is most relevant on par 4's, and I find I can only hit 2 to 5 per round. I find that my 2nd shot on par 4's usually ends up necessitating a longer iron or wood - perhaps this is why my 2nd shot **** - these are my least accurate clubs...

Do people find that their handicap drastically improved when they found that they were hitting more GIR's?...My handicap is stuck at around 19, and I think it's related to my inability to improve getting more GIR's...help! Ways to improve from bogey golf??

Anytime you can consistently get the ball closer to the hole, you're going to improve at least a little. GIRs are not the fix all for a golf score. Good iron play is a fundamental part of the game but I play with several guys that steadily hit 2 or 3 less greens than me and still beat me (occasionally ). I initially found that when I improved my GIR my putting stats went out the window. I was hitting more greens which resulted in more putts. It's always something isn't it!

If you're only hitting 2-5 GIR (and that's with woods or long irons) you may want to consider moving to a more forward set of tees. This will allow you to have shorter clubs on your approach shots. As your iron play sharpens you can always move further back. There's no shame in playing from the set of tees that allows you to hit successful shots and therefore get more enjoyment from the game.

ours greens are TINY ...so to hit 9 in reg is unusual
focus more on keeping control of the ball .....placing it where its safest "least risk gettin there" and where you have more green to work with + best lie etc
i hit 4 today ....doubled the 16th , and still shot 3 over par
way more to golf than hitting greens

> these are my least accurate clubs...

The golf manufacturers would love to sell you some hybrids...

> My handicap is stuck at around 19

You can save way more shots via short game.

Hitting GIR will absolutely lower your handicap. BUT it really isn't necessary until you become very low double or high single (ie. breaking 80. OK so high single digit handicapper). Or at least that is what the golf magazines state.

Are you hitting penalties?

You are playing (unintentionally) 3 shots to the green for a par 4. One chip and a two putt. This is where short game can save you 1 shot (almost) per hole. Or you should try to do it half the time. And that is to save par.

I think you mentioned your driving average is 220 now? If so then that isn't short.

"Golf Channel Academy Live" shows these average stats for certain handicappers. You may want to check it out and see where you can improve. And what the average is for GIR. You'd be surprised at how low GIR is for a 19 handicapper.

Like rlouie said, you can save many more shots with your short game and putting. As for hitting more greens, I find what helps the most is hitting a good tee shot. If I can get 150 yards or less on my second shot from the fairway, my chances of hitting the green will be pretty good. On the other hand, if I hit a bad tee shot and have a tree I have to hook the ball around or am playing out of the rough from 180 yards, the chances are very bad that I will hit the green.

If you're missing greens from 150 yards on the fairway, I think it might be bad course management that's your problem. I think with your handicap, you should take more club to allow for not-so-perfect contact with the ball. Also, you should know your swing tendencies. I wouldn't want to carry any sand traps and hopefully, I'd be able to play away from the sand. Also, if I miss, I'd want to miss on the side of the green where I'll have a lot of green to work with on my chip. I guess that goes back to improving your short game like rlouie said.

Game management is the key to lowering your handicap. Regardless of your ability, you can manage your game to lower your handicap. Analyze what you are doing, do this by recording each shot, and then adjust your game for the strong points. My goal on all par 4 holes is to get the tee shot inside the 150 marker but not past the 100 marker, as a result I rarely use a driver off the tee on par 4's. The reasoning is this, between 150 yds. and 100yds. I can use a club with a full swing. Inside 100 yds. I am chipping and using shorter backswings to control distance, much harder to do then the full swing with a club I know will get there. Also, avoid the high risk shots, those add more strokes to your game then a broken putter.

Ahhhh!!!! This is making a lot more sense now. I think course management is the key! I don't think I've been playing to my strengths, and trying to hit the ball as long as I can on most every shot is probably not the right idea.

Also, I see now that as with most people 100 to 150 yards in allows you to play the most comfortable irons.

I'm wondering now how to better play a long par 4, e.g. 420 yards, if I drive say 220 yards and have 200 yards left. Should I hit my untrusty 3 or 5 wood? or try to get on the green in 3 buy playing 2 mid/short iron shots?...I've always pulled out the long clubs (woods) and found myself spraying the course...

I have the same problem. FYI, 220 is a good drive for me (if I hit the 1W straight); more likely, my drive is only about 205 (with 2W, but usually in fairway). I can get about 200 out of my 5W. Don't carry a 3W.

I'm not bad (not good, but not bad) with my 5W, so if I'm 200 out, I'll hit 5W and probably be in the general vicinity of the green, and have a chance at an up-and-down for par, and almost a certain bogey (which I can accept; handicap is 15). I've become "not bad" with my 5W through experience, being a short hitter.

The dilemma for me is if I'm about 220 or 230 out. Not uncommon if I've hit a bad tee shot. What I do then is hit 7W or 9W (love those clubs) because they'll cover ground pretty accurately and leave me at a lay-up distance I've been practicing: 60 to 70 yards. I used to HATE that distance, but I've been practicing SW from that distance and now I feel more or less OK with that.

Now my buddy Larry will often play 2 PWs from 200. So, to each his own, I guess.

Sorry, but I disagree with a lot of you on this topic. Better ball striking is the key to lowering handicap. You are only 32 and you drive 220, well that tells me you have big swing flaw/flaws. If you are hitting from 200 yards out on a par four chances are you will slice or pull a lot of shots to where you are 30 yards off the green. Well realistically it is hard to get up and down from 30 yards more then 30 percent of the time. Now, say you change your swing, which willl add distance and accuracy, and when you miss a green it is only by 5-10 yards, you now have a much better chance at getting up and down. Also, if you dont have confidence ore fun when hitting a full shot you will be irratated and have less focus on you short game. One of the reasons that magazines/instructors/people say that short game is the way to lower handicap is that they realize people will not put forth the work it takes to change the full swing. The short game is simple, for the majority of shots, as far as technique is concerned so it is easier to practice and now becomes a matter of feel. THe long game takes A LOT MORE WORK. So to answer your original question, if you are willing to put work and effort into golf then find an instrucor and get working on the long game. If you dont have the drive or commitment, like most people who play golf, then work on the short game. I hit about 8 greens per round, but only miss about thre greens per round by more then ten yards. So, on 15 holes I am ten yards from the green or closer. index is a 6

better ball striking might help on a longer course if you can keep the ball under control
but its a TARGET game !!! not distance
we aint talking about making the pro tour
but "lowering" our scores
its simple ...
1 - Keep control of the ball at all times
2 - Never take risks to gain a few yards
3 - Play 1 shot at a time
4 - Think positive !!
5 - Keep it simple

stick to that , and work on better ball striking on the range

btw ....hit 5 greens today , 3 putted once
and shot 3 over par ....
my motto "chip in not at"

and how many greens were you more than 10 yards away from?

3 ....tiny greens tho
1 by choice , after hitting a tree off the tee
rather than risk a 3 wood to the green i took 7 wood
60 yard half wedge in and sunk the putt for par
you dont need million dollar shots to play good golf , youd be amazing how a good layup played shot can build your confidence and help lift your game thru the rest of the round
keep it on a string ! and sink putts
the Pro's hit lots of greens but still spend hrs working on the shortgame
if Epark is on a 19 then he can half his handicap by improving the shortgame - it takes the pressure off the iron play , "trying fails remember"

if you spend more time working on your iron play than shortgame then when it comes to the forms of play like "american foursomes "- a partner on a 32 handicap
or an "all irons" game
then your going to suffer

just thinking back to last sunday .a shocking round...
putts wouldnt drop , trees were jumping out at me left right and center
11 tap in bogeys and 7 pars
Epark would be very happy with that score no ??
if HE wants to cut his scores sure iron play might help
but i think the chipping is paramount

Robber,
your iron and wood play is good enough to were you have a good chance at getting up and down a high majority of the time. Do you really think that if he is off the green by more then 20 yards he will have better then a 25% chance of getting up and down? I was an 18 in jan and now am a six. My focus has been 75% on ball striking and 25% on the rest. Now to get from here to scratch i need to work on short game. He has an outside in swing, for me that would be priority number one because his short game will save him a few strokes a round but he could probably save 4-6 maybe even 8 right away if he did not hit 2,3,4 balls OB every round. Guys are macho and that is just the way it is. No need to argue and fight it! The short game is valuable but does not inflate the confidence that hitting good off the tee does. Remember, your misses are narrow, an 18 handicappers are not. Also, dont forget that the pros have a somewhat reliable swing, Epark does not.

balls OB will count as corrections and no doubt not cost him handicap wise .....if you understand what i mean there
do we know how many shots he is actually dropping around the greens ???
or ....more importantly dropping by TRYING to get onto a green thats too far away to safely do-so , when a ball 20 short with confidence behind your shortgame will give him easy bogey or chance of par ?
course management AND shortgame improvement will be quicker and easier for him to chop his scores

if you can putt - chipping isnt as essential less pressure
if you can chip - iron play isnt as essential less pressure
if your irons are great - your drives aint less pressure

for me confidence works backwards from the hole to the tee


playing with a fade isnt going to kill him ...
but yes ....id be working on that too

tip for Epark - when you go to a Pro dont ask to be taught to hit it straight ...
ask to learn how to hook .....
its way quicker and heaps cheaper and easier
you can find your own way to straightish lol

epark, if you're 200 - 220 yards to the hole, chances are really good that you won't make the green in one shot. You'll probably make it in two. This is where course management comes into play. Sometimes, greens go totally unprotected. There may be good margin for error with not much in the way of trees, sand or OB. If this is the case, go for the green. You might miss but if there's not much trouble, you'll probably be left with some kind of chip to the flag.

On the other hand, if there's a lot of trouble, you probably want to lay up to a yardage you're comfortable with. Like Forged mentioned earlier, lay up to the yardage you can take a full swing with. For me, I'd try to lay up to 100 yards. If you lay up, get on the green and 2 putt, you'll be left with a bogey 5. Not too bad. If you stick it from 100, you may even be left with a 1 putt for par.

I face this situation quite often on par 5's. Sometimes, my ego gets the best of me and I'll try to reach the green in two even with hazards everywhere. Sometimes I make it leaving me a 2 putt birdie or a short chip and a putt for birdie but most of the time, I'll find myself in a sand trap or behind a tree or in some other sort of trouble. I've been in situations where I've been behind trees and had to chip out. Then, you hit your chip on and 2 putt for bogey. There's not much I hate more on the golf course than a bogey (or worse) on a par 5 but it happens when my course management goes awry.