Bill Simmons (the Sports Guy on ESPN's Page 2) recently said Reggie was a great player, but not a superstar. This was after game 2, when in the post game show, Ernie, Kenny and Charles were gushing about how much of a superstar Reggie was.
What do you guys think? I say superstar... he's carried the Pacers this year and they flirted with Home court with Anthony Johnson as the starting PG and a Center they picked up off waivers a couple months ago...
I'll go with, he was a Superstar...Although he is still a great player, he has lost a step or two from those days when he battled Jordan. IMO, he's carried that team for 15+ seasons now...
Reggie's a streaky shooter with a history of scoring points more in bunches than in the big games when he's needed most. He's not on any "superstar" list I've ever seen.
This sort of thing happens all the time these days. A good player (in any sport) nears retirement and suddenly he becomes the greatest ever, or Hall of fame material simply because everybody has seen him play for X amount of years.
Reggie's a streaky shooter with a history of scoring points more in bunches than in the big games when he's needed most. He's not on any "superstar" list I've ever seen.
This sort of thing happens all the time these days. A good player (in any sport) nears retirement and suddenly he becomes the greatest ever, or Hall of fame material simply because everybody has seen him play for X amount of years.
Good player? Certainly. Super Star? No way!
Yes, thats true. He has no discernable skills besides shooting, but man, can that guy shoot. Always comes through in the clutch (is there anyone better besides MJ in the last couple seconds...of course, I dont remember Jerry West so I wont go there).. and he cant even create his own shot, yet somehow scores and wins games on guts alone (just ask any NYK fan lol)... 28, and 33 against the celtics at 39 years of age.
I know there are a lot of different levels of superstardom out there... the MJ, Larry, Magic level he cant touch, but I think he belongs up there somewhere...
Yes, thats true. He has no discernable skills besides shooting, but man, can that guy shoot. Always comes through in the clutch (is there anyone better besides MJ in the last couple seconds...of course, I dont remember Jerry West so I wont go there).. and he cant even create his own shot, yet somehow scores and wins games on guts alone (just ask any NYK fan lol)... 28, and 33 against the celtics at 39 years of age.
I know there are a lot of different levels of superstardom out there... the MJ, Larry, Magic level he cant touch, but I think he belongs up there somewhere...
Yeah, he's won so many play-off games with his "clutch" shooting. People always remember the highlights but forget the 5-19 shooting and 12 point performances in series finales. A guy scores 30 these days and that makes him a superstar? Oh. I forgot....it was against the mighty Celtics!
Yeah, he's won so many play-off games with his "clutch" shooting. People always remember the highlights but forget the 5-19 shooting and 12 point performances in series finales. A guy scores 30 these days and that makes him a superstar? Oh. I forgot....it was against the mighty Celtics!
Well, for one, Game 2 and 3 this year. Remember Game 6 against the Bulls in 98, when the Pacers gave the BUlls all they could handle. 25 (not sure about the amt) in the fourth vs. the Knicks (when he did the choke sign to Spike), 8 points in 18 seconds... You can say anything else about him, but you have to give him that. he's won plenty of games with shooting.
Remember too that everyone remembers MJ's game winners, but dont rememebr the 30 some odd times he's had a chance to win the game and missed.
Well I think it depends on what our definition of Superstar is. Hes been the Marquee piece of a great team for the last 17 years, which to me is enough. A guy that teams have to ALWAYS be conscious of and has to game plan around. And he's valuable for his work away from the ball, which not only forces you to guard him with their best defender, it makes the other guy tired as well as creates open spaces for others, like Rip last year against the Lakers and Pacers. Also, has any average player that left Reggie ever been as good as he was in Indiana? Dale/Antonio Davis, Travis Best, Mark Jackson, Aaron Mckie, etc etc....
Just curious, who do you think are the superstars of today's game? Or maybe of the past (by past, i mean the 80's and 90's).
Indiana a great team for 17 years? Who are you kidding? Yeah, Reggie's a scorer when hes hot. What's his career scoring average? ( I really don't know) How many times has his great team even made it to the finals, much less won an NBA Title. He wins games with his shooting....just not the games that count the most. Regular season heroics are a dime a dozen and superstars find a way to get their teams into championship games.
I'm not knocking Reggie, but let's not go overboard because he's had a couple of good games in the first round. He'll disappear down the road....just like he always has.
If it were up to me I'd put Reggie in the Hall of Fame just for all the he gave Spike Lee. That's gotta be Reggie's shining moment and the one game in his career that we'll all remember!
Well every game I just listed was in the Playoffs. Not regular season, but the playoffs where it matters. I think you would be hard pressed to find a GM of that era, or even in this era, who didnt include Miller in the list of clutch shooters who performed in the playoffs. I think even as recently as two years ago in the annual GM survey, Miller was second behind Kobe in "Who would you want shooting the game winner for you?" (I havent looked at the GM survey this year). Remember, his Playoff Career avg is about (I'm not sure exactly) but I believe is aboutu 5 points higher than his regular season avg. (almost 20 to almost 25?? i think) There arent many players you can say that about. They dont call it Miller TIme for nothing. Superstars do find a way to win, but you need the help as well. Even MJ didnt win until Pippen and Phil came. Ewing never even played in teh finals (his team got there when he was injured one year). Robinson never got there until Duncan came. Barkley made the most of his finals appearence, but MJ did him in, and the list goes on. Who did reggie have again? Oh yeah, the flying dutchman or whatever his nickname was, Rik Smits.
The Pacers made the playoffs from the 89-90 season, missed it when two of their starters were lost for the season in 97, and has made the playoffs since then (including pushing MJ to the limit, 7th game in 98....i think the only time CHicago went to game 7 under Jordan in teh Championship years). He was drafted in 87, didnt play much rookie year, and basically carried this team to the playoffs every year. I think 5 or 6 Eastern Conference Finals appearences, and 1 NBA finals appearence, when they lost to Shaq-Kobe and the Lakers. I think the next year after the finals appearence, he avged 36 points in the playoffs, but Indy didnt have the horses to match up... It's been a one man team until Jermaine Oneal came.
Im not trying to go overboard on his series with the Celts, but superstar or not, he's proven himself in the playoffs. He deserves at least that.
Im not trying to go overboard on his series with the Celts, but superstar or not, he's proven himself in the playoffs. He deserves at least that.
Most of what I remember of Reggie is from his performances in the playoffs, too. I would consider him a superstar. He made it to the finals one year and took his Pacers deep into the playoffs in others. He's been a leader or the leader on a Pacers team that has been pretty successful for almost the past 10 years. I'll remember him not for what he did at the end of this season but what he did during his prime.
Reggie WAS an offensive superstar, but he's what 40 now. He can still shine occassionally. I guess it depends upon how expansive your definition of superstar is. I think he'll be a HOF'er, though.
Can a superstar be a one dimensional player? Reggie is a great shooter but you won't find him on anyones all defensive team, or leading the team in rebounds or assists.
He's no doubt a hall of famer, but "superstar"?? Who knows. I think anymore, superstars are those that you look at in your OWN view and decide "Man, that guy's one of the best". In this day and age, everyone is in such a rush to give labels to anyone else. Superstars, failures, etc. And it changes with the wind. I agree with the earlier post that Reggie is a level below the circle of the best ever. Sure, he's come up short in some big games, but watching all the Reggie coverage (and I was at his last regular season game "Reggie Miller Night" last Wednesday) in Indy this week, there is NO way the Pacers are anything more than an afterthought the last 15 years without him on the floor.
As for Bill Simmons, well, I just plain don't like him anymore. (Was that family friendly enough? *laugh*) Aside from the "bow down to the Boston altar" tone, he's just not funny as he once was. That every article he writes now has to have a "pantheon moment" or "unintentional comedy" is getting old and forced. And to read his intern contest which turned into a "write 500 words and include, in context, as many of my catchphrases as you can" got sickening about halfway through round one. It was like a different breed of Jim Rome clones. "I might not be able to tie my shoe, or count to four, but I can copy everything you say, Jim, and be the coolest 45 year old kid on my block." I forget the specifics, but the breaking point with me was when Simmons was doing one of his infamous movie scene comparisons, and was like "Do you remember the scene in Caddyshack where Bill Murray was hitting flowers with a weed cutter?" OF COURSE we remember it, its one of the top 5 most familiar scenes in sports movie history!!! But then, almost in the same article, he breaks out "watching that game was like the part in Karate Kid 2 where Ralph Macchio blows his nose, but doesn't get it all on the first try, so he has to get another kleenex." HUH??
Wow. I guess I ranted a little there, huh? *laugh*
Wow....I actually agree with LeagueGolf on this one ......hehe.
Reggie has had a great career and some really great games, but he needed to win a championship to reach Superstardom in my book. There are not many "Superstars" that haven't won it all (Barkley and Malone.....) and Reggie doesn't belong in their league...
Wow....I actually agree with LeagueGolf on this one ......hehe.
Reggie has had a great career and some really great games, but he needed to win a championship to reach Superstardom in my book. There are not many "Superstars" that haven't won it all (Barkley and Malone.....) and Reggie doesn't belong in their league...
Funny that you mention Malone, but Miller's not in his league? If everyone seems to agree that Reggie was AT LEAST a good player that faltered in big games, what makes Malone much different?
Funny that you mention Malone, but Miller's not in his league? If everyone seems to agree that Reggie was AT LEAST a good player that faltered in big games, what makes Malone much different?
April 29th, 2005, 01:31 AM
A good player (in any sport) nears retirement and suddenly he becomes the greatest ever, or Hall of fame material simply because everybody has seen him play for X amount of years.
Oh. I forgot....it was against the mighty Celtics! 
he gave Spike Lee. That's gotta be Reggie's shining moment and the one game in his career that we'll all remember! 
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