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Old May 14th, 2005, 06:29 AM
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On the subject of the PGA being moved, I dont think it should be..... because it is after all the PGA of america

I do think it would be nice though if there were a travelling major because I think its unfair that countries such as South Africa and Australia which contribute so much to golf dont ever get to see a major.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 07:49 AM
jimmigan jimmigan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TyeDye
On the subject of the PGA being moved, I dont think it should be..... because it is after all the PGA of america

I do think it would be nice though if there were a travelling major because I think its unfair that countries such as South Africa and Australia which contribute so much to golf dont ever get to see a major.
A travelling major. I like this idea for the reasons TyeDye states. The problem would be getting the PGA Championship downgraded and this "international" major elevated. I'm thinking that it should occur in proximity (time and location) of a given year's President's Cup/Ryder Cup competition.

Optimally, though probably not realistically, it would behoove the PGA of America to allow the PGA Championship to become this event. Lets face it, the PGA Championship is easily viewed as the least ranked major in terms of prestige, especially externally (to USA). And wouldn't it be great to see a major in Australia, South Africa, Argentina, New Zealand, etc...... and half the time this event would take place in the USA. I think it would be representative of the game's evolution.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 01:34 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Why not just move the "Player's Championship" around to the various countries? Gee, Australia has 4-5 players (a few of which didn't even compete in their own National Open). South Africa has 2. New Zealand and Argentina are real hot beds for professional golf.

I'm sure the eligible players would just love the idea!
  #49 (permalink)  
Old May 14th, 2005, 03:23 PM
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Gee, Australia has 4-5 players (a few of which didn't even compete in their own National Open). South Africa has 2.
I think they have a few more than that!Have a look down the World ranking s and you will see 10 Australians and 5 South Africans in the top 60 ,including Immelman,Sabbatini ,Hensby ,PAmpling,Lonard ,Allenby,Parry,Appleby,Perks,Scott and many more.Look on the European Tour and you will see Campbell, O'Hern,Green and a host of promising young players from the Southern hemisphere.

The USPGA is the least regarded of the Majors, but the MAsters has the weakest field.

Last edited by Lefty : May 14th, 2005 at 03:29 PM.
  #50 (permalink)  
Old May 14th, 2005, 06:56 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
I think they have a few more than that!Have a look down the World ranking s and you will see 10 Australians and 5 South Africans in the top 60 ,including Immelman,Sabbatini ,Hensby ,PAmpling,Lonard ,Allenby,Parry,Appleby,Perks,Scott and many more.Look on the European Tour and you will see Campbell, O'Hern,Green and a host of promising young players from the Southern hemisphere.

The USPGA is the least regarded of the Majors, but the MAsters has the weakest field.
So I underestimated the numbers...slightly. I say let the European Tour hold a "Major" tournament of their own in the Southern hemisphere then.

The smaller Master's field is as strong any, with the exception of a few of the Amateurs and the past their prime past winners that give the Masters the charm none of the other majors have.
  #51 (permalink)  
Old May 14th, 2005, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
...but The Masters has the weakest field.
137T Brian McELHINNEY (A)
76 76 0 0 152 10 £0

137T David GRIFFITHS
75 78 0 0 153 11 £2000

137T Jimmy GREEN
78 75 0 0 153 11 £2000

137T Thomas BJÖRN
74 79 0 0 153 11 £2000

137T Nick FALDO
76 77 0 0 153 11 £2000

141T David HOWELL
78 76 0 0 154 12 £2000

141T Nicolas COLSAERTS
77 77 0 0 154 12 £2000

141T Dinesh CHAND
80 74 0 0 154 12 £2000

141T Frank LICKLITER
77 77 0 0 154 12 £2000

145 Paul LAWRIE
78 77 0 0 155 13 £2000

146T Andrew WILLEY
80 76 0 0 156 14 £2000

146T Louis OOSTHUIZEN
74 82 0 0 156 14 £2000

148T Ian SPENCER
79 78 0 0 157 15 £2000

148T Adam LE VESCONTE
77 80 0 0 157 15 £2000

150 Andrew BUCKLE
76 82 0 0 158 16 £2000

151 Yoshinobu TSUKADA
79 80 0 0 159 17 £2000

152 Tom WEISKOPF
80 80 0 0 160 18 £2000

153 Brett TAYLOR
86 75 0 0 161 19 £2000

154 Neil EVANS
85 78 0 0 163 21 £2000

155T Anthony MILLAR
78 86 0 0 164 22 £2000

155T Lewis ATKINSON
79 85 0 0 164 22 £2000

This is the bottom of the final leader board from last year's British Open at Royal Troon. As you can see, a stellar field of golfing superstars who stood a much greater chance of winning the British Open than the nobodies who polluted The Masters' field, which, as Lefty is always fond of reminding us, is the weakest of the majors.

Again, your field is not strong merely because you have 156 players in it. At both Open Championships, fully one-fourth of those fields have absolutely zero chance of winning the event.
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Old May 14th, 2005, 11:49 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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I agree with droogy in that the Masters in fact has the STRONGEST field of all the majors. Besides those past champs and amateurs, everyone in the field is top notch. That is why, year in and year out, the Masters produces the strongest leaderboards. I'd rather see a Mickelson-Els back nine shootout than a Thomas Bjorn-Ben Curtis yawnfest anyday. Maybe the R&A would enjoy sending its Open Championship around the world every year...after all, it would be for the good of the game and to the benefit of the British Isles, right?
  #53 (permalink)  
Old May 15th, 2005, 12:40 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Originally Posted by stlcard_25
Maybe the R&A would enjoy sending its Open Championship around the world every year...after all, it would be for the good of the game and to the benefit of the British Isles, right?
Great idea! The R & A should take Lefty's ideas and add Algeria, Bolivia, Uganda, and Zimbabwe (just to name a few of the more deserving countries in which to hold a Major) to the rota! Lead by example!
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Old May 18th, 2005, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by leaguegolf
Gee, Australia has 4-5 players (a few of which didn't even compete in their own National Open).
LG...I don`t think that you`re giving the Australian players the credit they deserve. They have 11 players in the top 125 of the (U.S.)P.G.A Tour`s moneylist (12 if you include non-member Nick O`Hern, who knocked out Tiger Woods from the W.G.C Matchplay). Furthermore, they have won four of this year`s twenty tournaments played on the (U.S)P.G.A Tour :nodsmiley

C-B-C
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Old May 18th, 2005, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by colourblindchameleon
LG...I don`t think that you`re giving the Australian players the credit they deserve. They have 11 players in the top 125 of the (U.S.)P.G.A Tour`s moneylist (12 if you include non-member Nick O`Hern, who knocked out Tiger Woods from the W.G.C Matchplay). Furthermore, they have won four of this year`s twenty tournaments played on the (U.S)P.G.A Tour :nodsmiley

C-B-C
I admitted that I underestimated the number of Australian players (see post #50 in this thread) but I still see no reason to move a Major Tournament to Australia. It's cool that more and more foreign players are doing well on the PGA Tour because I want to see the best players in the world competing against each other as often as possible. I'm sure the European Tour brass and fans are just thrilled that most of the up and coming young players aren't playing on that tour.
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Old May 19th, 2005, 03:08 AM
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I'm sure the European Tour brass and fans are just thrilled that most of the up and coming young players aren't playing on that tour
And this is the core of the problem. The increase in prize money post Tiger combined with the ranking points means that golfers need to play in USPGA events at the cost of other Tours events to maintain the World Ranking.The guys hovering around the 50 and 64 mark are particularly vulnerable. The influx of young British golfers to the US has highlighted the strength in UK golf ,but weakened the fields of European Tour events.

Living overseas for a large part of the year is difficult and some players (Sam Torrance on the Seniors Tour) do not want to live overseas whatever the money on offer. On USPGA Tour everyone has room service and there is no life off the course. In Europe, the players spend more time together off thew course, making th egrind of travelling and hotels more bearable. Thsi is because most of them will be in a foriegn country at the event ,unlike USA where most of them are in their home country.

So ,the obvious answer ,again, is to take the cream of the events ,and devise a twelve month tour where all tours are covered.It is unrealistic to put a MAjor in South Africa or Australia in January ,but a $7mill event with the world's top 100 would go along way.
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Old May 19th, 2005, 05:55 AM
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I don't think that the international players coming to America is a problem at all. I think the real question should be why can't the European tour get their purses high enough and their fields strong enough to keep their players at home?

Is the American market really that much bigger than Europe? As far as the economy goes the EU is almost dead even with the USA. Yet, as more and more European players leave that tour to play in the US their home tour gets weaker and the American tour gets stronger. The disparity between the two tours seems to be getting bigger...
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Old May 19th, 2005, 07:56 AM
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Is the American market really that much bigger than Europe?
Yes, the size of the two markets may be similar , but the European market is split by differing languages,currencies ,cultures and legislation. If you sponsor a European tournament, the spread of spend across th emarket place is much weaker than USA.The sponsors of the Italian Open recieve very little recognition outside of Italy. Very few brands cover the whole continent , and most European countries have little interest in Golf. France,Germany and Italy have developed courses but have had few players in the top 100 ,Spain has had more top players but is a tourist centre for golf, as is Portugal.Only Sweden has an established golf market linked to success on the course outside UK and Ireland.

The growth of the USPGA Tour post Tiger has hurt the other tours.As USA pulls more and more stars into its tour, the weaker fields attract less sponsorship,bringing a vicious downward spiral. Thsi has happened in the ladies game.To break this spiral we need to provide sponsors with the guarentee that the World's top players will come. Too often , sponsors have laid out big money, only to find US players do not want to travel ,weakening the fields.
  #59 (permalink)  
Old May 19th, 2005, 09:29 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Originally Posted by Lefty
The increase in prize money post Tiger combined with the ranking points means that golfers need to play in USPGA events at the cost of other Tours events to maintain the World Ranking.
The PGA Tour is finally taking steps to raise the ranking points available in foreign events. That excuse will no longer be a valid one soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
Living overseas for a large part of the year is difficult and some players (Sam Torrance on the Seniors Tour) do not want to live overseas whatever the money on offer. On USPGA Tour everyone has room service and there is no life off the course. In Europe, the players spend more time together off thew course, making th egrind of travelling and hotels more bearable. Thsi is because most of them will be in a foriegn country at the event ,unlike USA where most of them are in their home country.
Room service isn't available at European Tour stops? No life off the course? Get real. The truth is it's just the opposite here in America. Every tour stop heaps perks on all the players. Perks like sporting event and theme park tickets, great accommodations for not only the player but his family too, chauffeured transportation to wherever they chose, etc. Every city they play in has culture, night life, and everything a player could want is at his fingertips. No wonder the world's best players are flocking to the PGA Tour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
So ,the obvious answer ,again, is to take the cream of the events ,and devise a twelve month tour where all tours are covered.It is unrealistic to put a MAjor in South Africa or Australia in January ,but a $7mill event with the world's top 100 would go along way.
"Go a long way" is the gist of YOUR entire problem. I emphasize "your problem" here because I don't hear the PGA Tour players belly achin' about the current set-up (at least not the ones struggling to keep a Tour card. ) The money available to players for playing in even the secondary events here in the USA makes 7 million dollar purses in other parts of the world just another Tour stop and not worth the trouble of flying half way around the world. Why bother when they can play here and not have to miss the tournaments held the week before and the week after these proposed big money tournaments held so far from the US?

You seem to have a "Field of Dreams" attitude. "Build it and they will come" is no longer true in professional golf. Like every other financially driven enterprise, the players are going to take the easiest and best route to the money. Why drive to an ATM all the way across town when there's one on the nearest street corner?
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Old May 19th, 2005, 02:54 PM
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not worth the trouble of flying half way around the world. Why bother when they can play here
That sums up the average US pro's attitude. That is why we need to create events big enough to draw them away.But the comfort zone in USA is so high that it is impossible to bring many of them to play a MAjor . If they can not be bothered to play the oldest MAjor (witness the poor attendance at the US qualifiers for the Open) , how much money does it take?

Most non USA pro's would like to play more events outside USA , especially in their home country. USPGA are against the players returning to their home tours , for example, USPGA requires Ernie Els to ask permission to play in South Africa.

Travel broadens the mind ,clearly some minds are too narrow to benefit. Arnie, Jack ,Tom and Payne saw the huge benefit in travelling and were great ambassadors for the game of golf and USA. Not enough players are following in their footsteps.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/golf/4537201.stm

David Howell gives an interesting view on the difference between the tours
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