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Old May 3rd, 2005, 08:59 AM
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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Decline of USA golfers

In 1984 ,two overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.
In 1994, five overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.
In 2004 ,nine overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.

This season , there are 11 overseas players in the top 20.

Are the USA players getting weaker, or are the rest of the world getting stronger?
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 09:47 AM
wazmankg wazmankg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
In 1984 ,two overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.
In 1994, five overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.
In 2004 ,nine overseas players finished in the top 20 of the money list.

This season , there are 11 overseas players in the top 20.

Are the USA players getting weaker, or are the rest of the world getting stronger?

Some of both probably. More that the rest of the world is catching up and more no-US players are playing more US tournaments, though admittedly , this isn't exactly the Golden Age of US pro golf.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 11:17 AM
jcgolfpro jcgolfpro is offline
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The rest of the world is playing MORE on the PGA TOUR which allows them to make more money and move higher on the money list.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 12:48 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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I don't think the US has gotten much weaker, nor has the rest of the world gotten much stronger, as a whole. Certain areas have gotten stronger, such as Australia and South Africa, as the talent pools there have increased.

I think the bigger reason is where these guys are playing. Naturally, when more of the top players from other tours are starting to play the PGA Tour, then they'll be taking up spots on the money list that probably would have gone to Americans before. The money and competition are so much greater now in the US that no one in their right mind would pass it up if they wish to be considered the best in the world. While 20 years ago a Sergio, an Ernie or Retief, or an Adam Scott would have played the vast majority of events on their geographic "home" tours, now they play considerably more in America. Hence the European, Sunshine and Australasian Tours are left out in the cold, their fans dejected and the only hope of returning some of the luster to their schedules is the farcical idea of a "World Tour."
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 12:51 PM
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TyeDye TyeDye is offline
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I think the US has a lack of young talent but that wont last long, a few years ago people were wondering where the next Euro major champion would come from, now the candidates are lining up.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 03:57 PM
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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Hence the European, Sunshine and Australasian Tours are left out in the cold, their fans dejected and the only hope of returning some of the luster to their schedules is the farcical idea of a "World Tour."
As these tours 'left out in the cold' have provided more players in top twenty than USA ,how dejected are the fans?

The reality is that the overseas players play the USPGA tour because of the silly cash and the ranking points. Their places are taken by hungry young pros and the cycle continues. That's why a little country like Britain has more players under 30 years of age in the top 100 than USA, and why the Walker Cup is over here still.

A World Tour would benefit all golf, including USA , because all Tours would have the top players with a second level aching to get to the top.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 04:14 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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"Silly cash"........How can those guys stoop to playing for that?

How could a World Tour possibly add to the benefits the USA already enjoys?
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 04:15 PM
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BamaGolf BamaGolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgolfpro
The rest of the world is playing MORE on the PGA TOUR which allows them to make more money and move higher on the money list.
I agree...Look at how many non Americans were playing on the tour from 1984-2004, and I bet you'll see a substantial increase in the non American PGA pro's playing in the US. I'd look up the numbes myself, but that'd take entirely too much effort, and possibly dispute my arguement...So I'll not do that!
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 04:37 PM
johnny trance johnny trance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
The reality is that the overseas players play the USPGA tour because of the silly cash.
"silly cash" is how people make livings and finance their dreams.

foreign players love our "silly cash".

to quote one of my favorite memebers here:
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 05:04 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefty
As these tours 'left out in the cold' have provided more players in top twenty than USA ,how dejected are the fans?

The reality is that the overseas players play the USPGA tour because of the silly cash and the ranking points. Their places are taken by hungry young pros and the cycle continues. That's why a little country like Britain has more players under 30 years of age in the top 100 than USA, and why the Walker Cup is over here still.

A World Tour would benefit all golf, including USA , because all Tours would have the top players with a second level aching to get to the top.
Well, given that of the top 20 players you mention, only one (Miguel Angel Jimenez) earned that ranking by playing more events on their "home" tour over the past two years than they did on the PGA Tour, I'm not really sure why we fans in the US would be dejected.

If all of these great overseas players would get together and play on their home tours more often, then maybe the money and ranking points would even up. As is, the ranking points are doled out based on strength of field as they always have been, not by some great person who decides to smite the European Tour and give the PGA Tour more points. The money just comes when you've got a product worth showcasing, and sponsors have always known that the best place to showcase that product is right here in the US of A.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 05:15 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Lefty takes a roundhouse right from Card and (announced in my best Howard Cosell voice!) "Down goes Lefty, Down goes Lefty, Down goes Lefty" :faintthud ONE....TWO....THREE....FOUR.... "World Tour" Lefty might not get up from this one! FIVE....SIX.....SEVEN.....
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 05:16 PM
ANTHONY792 ANTHONY792 is offline
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In my opinion there has not been a decline in US golfers just look at how many 1st time winners there have been on the US PGA tour in the last few years.
The fact is "everyone" is getting better from India (Arjun Atwal) or Thailand (Jaidee) to China, Korea and think of all those South American players who are playing so well in the USA.
All have one thing in common though, they all want to play on the US PGA tour and obviously $s are the main reason but it is without doubt the best place to go and test yourself.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 06:25 PM
jhsn79 jhsn79 is offline
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I don't think the USA is weaker, but rather the rest of the world has gotten better. Els, Singh and Goosen all probably could have been #1 in the world between 1990-1995 when Americans were at their strongest. But even though overall I think the world is better, Americans are still doing pretty well in the majors. They've taken 7 of the last 9 British Opens, which is unheard of. They've got 5 of the last 6 PGAs, and have pretty well in the US Open and Masters as well.
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 08:47 PM
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colourblindchameleon colourblindchameleon is offline
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Ironically I think that Tiger Woods has been one of the biggest factors in the increase of non-American professionals playing on the (U.S) P.G.A tour. The `Tiger-effect`in recent years has led to an enormous increase in prize money on offer. This has made it more financially viable for non-American professionals to buy homes in America in addition to properties in their native countries. In turn, such players can settle (and practise) in conditions identical to the tournaments they`re playing in, with no jetlag and acclimatisation worries.

Only time will tell, but if the trend continues then I still think (`Twin Edged Sword` thread) that one day the (U.S)P.G.A Tour may wish to introduce a limit on the number of non-American professionals in the top 125 money list. I wouldn`t blame them for doing so either, because the vast majority of the tournaments are played on American courses with American sponsors prize money.

C-B-C
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Old May 3rd, 2005, 09:24 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colourblindchameleon
Only time will tell, but if the trend continues then I still think (`Twin Edged Sword` thread) that one day the (U.S)P.G.A Tour may wish to introduce a limit on the number of non-American professionals in the top 125 money list. I wouldn`t blame them for doing so either, because the vast majority of the tournaments are played on American courses with American sponsors prize money.

C-B-C
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