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Paula won something like 19 national events in the time before she turned pro.....Michelle has won???????????? A few Hawaiin (now there's a powerhouse golf state ) Women's Amateur events and one Womens Publinks. All else being equal (and other than the fact that Wie is a longer hitter and Creamer has the better short game, it pretty much is equal across the board), I'll take the proven winner over the talented unknown.

BTW davehowe, which argument are you trying to make? That the results do count for something, or that they're not good indicators? Because from what I see, you're trying to make both in consecutive posts....both in Michelle's favor of course. Ask any of the top pros what they'd rather have.....two wins and a few tops 10s with some 20+ place finishes or a few seconds and some other finishes around 10th....I doubt you'd find one who wouldn't take the two wins.

I wasn't comparing "them." I was comparing their victories.

I'm sure both Creamer and Wie will win their share of LPGA tournaments. I was just pointing out that Creamer is up 2-0.

You can't be "better" if you have 0 wins this year and a rival has 2. Golf is about winning and while Wie is getting all the headlines, Creamer's collecting trophies. That may change down the road, but for now, the facts speak for themselves.

I agree that Wie has the length to handle PGA Tour courses.......it's the PGA Tour players she's finding difficult to "handle."

I'm not knocking the kid. She's a great young player with plenty of potential and she has the golf world kneeling at her feet. Now if she'd just win something......anything......to show the world that she knows how to win. Paula Creamer is doing that and I have a sense that several of the other young stars may be more driven to win on the LPGA level than Wie, who seems to have less aspirations for that tour.

There was no cut. Some lady shot 87-81-82-81 and finished about 58 shots behind Creamer.

Even if she doesn't make it on points, which she should, I believe Nancy Lopez will make her one of the captain's picks. She likes Creamer.

That is a good point when comparing the two. As much as I love watching Michelle play she does seem to choke if she is getting remotely close to winning. Paula, on the other hand, does not. She went head to head with Annika and it didn't phase her at all. Paula has the game and the maturity to 'close the deal' when it is in her hands to do so. I want desperately to see Michelle win. I will be thrilled for her, but for now, it is just potential. Paula is delivering. Go Paula!!!!!!!!

I think its way too early to say Creamer will have a better LPGA career than Wie--

I'm looking at what Michelle is doing at her age- Top 2 finishes in 3 LPGA events including a major. Paula wasn't even remotely close to doing any of that when she was 15. Like I mentioned before she hasn't even finished 2nd in a major and (like Michelle )also had zero wins on the LPGA tour when she was 15 .

If Michelle is 18 going on 19 and still hasn't won anything then its fair to criticize her, but that is a 3 year gap in experience not to mention the much larger number of LPGA tournaments Paula has competed in this year.

Its just so early to say this person will be great and this person won't be--
After winning the Sybase -Creamer placed 62nd in her next tournament -
After finishing 2nd at the U.S. Women's Open-Morgan Pressel lost in the 3rd round of a Match Play tournament for Junior girls.

Do these mean they aren't going to be great players ?

Of course not, these girls are so young, and older players make mistakes and "choke" as well.

Don't forget, Annika who is an amazing player was in the top 3 at the Evian Masters and finished 12th that day. While Michelle started off 45th and finished all the way to 2nd place.
I just feel Michelle is only 15 and has every right to make mistakes just like all other LPGA and PGA golfers. Why she gets so much criticism after what she has accomplished this summer , I have no idea.

I would also like to add the fact that people were gushing all over Paula last year when she came in second at one of the LPGA tournaments while being only a part-time player and playing under exemptions. At the same time, they made note of the fact that Michelle hadn't had at least a second-place finish.

Now we are in the Paula has two wins and Michelle has none scenario. However, Michelle has three second place finishes and it doesn't mean anything that she is a part-time player and playing under the exemptions rule.

As you pointed out because Michelle hasn't won, people are saying she can't close, doesn't know how to win, is a choker, etc. and yet it's true that Paula didn't close when Ochoa caught up with her and won and she also had a missed cut this year but no one has called her a choker or that she can't win even though she had that second place finish the prior year.

I think the main thing that Paula has going over Michelle is her putting. Paula is outstanding right now with her putting. Michelle is hot and cold and Dottie Pepper explained that as the fact that Michelle doesn't play full-time and it's hard to keep the feel for putting when you only play a schedule such as Michelle does. I think should Michelle become more consistent with her putting, she will be winning and winning frequently. She missed many putts that were right in the heart, but came up short.

I read an article this weekend that Votaw will allow Pressel to go to Q school for the LPGA and if she makes it, she will not be able to play full time until she graduates. I believe they are seting a president as to not let it come in conflict with finishing High school. It was mentioned about a Korean player but they allowed it because she had already graduated.

Putting is a very important part of an overall game (maybe the most important part) and Wie's putter hasn't caught up to the rest of her game yet. Her putter may very well prove to be the weakest club in her bag ala VJ Singh.

As for any scheduling issues causing Wie problems......that's entirely of her own doing. Most amateurs her age are competing somewhere almost every week. Wie isn't. She has chosen to to play exclusively in high profile events and has abandoned the coveted Amateur titles all the other young stars are playing for. Is that necessarily a bad thing? Only time will tell.

Personally, I'm tired of hearing that Wie's only 15. She's playing in the adult world of golf and age is irrelevant to me. She's a wonderful player and her future is certainly bright, but enough with the "she's only 15" stuff. A golf ball doesn't know, and doesn't care, how old the person hitting it is.....and neither do I. You can bet those playing against her don't care either.

I don't believe I brought up the age but actually it does matter. If it didn't matter there wouldn't be age classifications for the USGA tournaments. There is a limit to the juniors' tournaments. Paula wouldn't be eligible right now even if she weren't a pro but Michelle would be. If age doesn't matter, then why not just eliminate junior, mid-am and other various tournaments and just stage a single whereby everyone plays. I wonder how many 13 or 15 year olds would actually win. Fact is, that as people mature they generally get better at whatever they are doing, be it sports of any type or business or other adventures. That may be because of either physical for mental maturity, but it does seem to be the fact. I don't think I can name a single person who was as good at 15 as they became when they got older. Would you say you, yourself, were as capable at anything when you were 15 and that you haven't improved since you've become an adult?

Yes, I do believe that Michelle's putting is holding her back somewhat but it has improved substantially this year. As someone has pointed out on another board, her stroke average puts her around 13th. If she hadn't (and I know ifs are just ridiculous) had an 82 in her last round at the open, she would be just in front of Paula. Imagine how well she would score if her putts that have fallen short this year would have gone in, but as I pointed out, Dottie Pepper feels that her putting problems are related to her lack of year-round playing.

I don't think the scheduling problem is a entirely her own doing. People are already questioning how she can afford her travel as it is. How many amateur tournaments do you think there are available to play in Hawaii. She accepts the maximum number of LPGA tournaments she can play. They and the other amateur tournaments she has chosen to play take up 95% of her summer vacation from school. She is a high school student in Hawaii, and I doubt there are a lot of tournaments she can fit in during the school year, not to mention the cost of the travel. She did compete and win frequently in Hawaii before she was even old enough for the national junior tournaments, and yet there are posters here who question how important can those wins be since presumably they are against only those from the state of Hawaii.

Maybe Wie is unique and has already reached her full potential at age 15. That seems very unlikely though and one would think that she would see steady improvement of her entire game, and particularly her short game for the next 5 - 10 years at least. Because of this, age is certainly relevant when discussing someone's potential.

Funny thing though, with three 2nds out of 6 tourney's, Wie would probably win a lot of tourney's even if she didn't improve one bit. One of Jack's amazing stats is just how many times he came in 2nd over his career, and he was anything but a choker. Coming in 2nd is a sign of how good you are, not how bad. IMO

I don't believe for one second that money is a factor in any of Wie's scheduling plans. If you do, I have some swamp land in Florida I'd love to sell you. As for her schooling and available amateur tournaments in Hawaii........Wie's immense golf talents have put those far behind her.

Age isn't a factor because we're not talking about Wie and junior or mid-am tournaments now are we. The only "age factor" Wie is concerned about is the LPGA's minimum age requirements that the LPGA will probably alter to allow this money machine to play. They'd be foolish not to. As I previously stated, she's playing in the adult world of golf and the adults she's playing against don't give one red cent how old she is. The fans and media are the ones that continue to stress the "she's only 15" aspect of her fine play. I don't think her age and/or sex is ever on the minds of those trying to beat her. Do you?

I'm not knocking the kid. I'm just not putting her in the Hall of Fame yet.

Was just thinking of something. In response to those who want Wie to compete in the juniors some more.....
I can hear the complaints now of the parents of kids in Wie's age group.
LOL.
Wouldn't that be a little unfair?

Anyone else hear something about Wie possibly declaring herself a pro after she turns 16? Seems that if she does that, she need not become a member of either the LPGA, or the PGA, can compete in events on sponsor exemptions, keep the money, and still stay in school.
I'm still not sure I heard it all correctly, but that was my understanding of it.