No spinning going on here. Bear in mind, as I said - she's 16 years old. She's supposed to crack under the kind of pressure she faces when she's in PGA Tour events. It's completely normal.
As for the Tiger/other young professionals comparrison's, I think they're a fool's errand.
I'm not quite sure that what's being done on her behalf is in her best interests, but only time will tell. I personally think she will go on to be a superb women's player, and will make a cut here and there on the PGA Tour, but I doubt she will ever Monday qualify and I give her zero chance of getting through Q-School.
Bearing in mind that you can say the same of 99.9% of professional golfers the world over, please don't take my comments as being overly critical of Miss Wie.
please don't take my comments as being overly critical of Miss Wie.
Overly critical of Miss Wie? That never happens around here!
Your points are well taken and even the staunchest Wie supporters would be hard pressed to read anything critical in your post.
Overly critical of Miss Wie? That never happens around here!
Your points are well taken and even the staunchest Wie supporters would be hard pressed to read anything critical in your post.
I'm actually a Wie supporter for the most part - it's her parents that I question. Not being a parent myself, nonetheless I would have to say that with all that money comes a whole new level of pressure.
It's like when A-Rod signed that huge contract a few years back. If I had been him, I would've said to my agent, "Ok, who just signed for the largest amount? Jeter for $180 million? Ok, tell Texas I'll sign for $178 million." First off, you won't have the pressure of having the richest contract in the sport, and second, what's the difference between $178 million and $252 million? A lot less than you think. As Bill Gates once said, "There's nothing better than the best."
But back to Michelle, the 14 year old trying to make the Sony cut was cute; the 16 year old with $10 million in off the course contracts and $1.5 million dollar appearance fees has expectations of success, and the corresponding pressure not to fail. Pressure to succeed and pressure to meet expectations are two very, very different things.
This girl would have gotten her loot either way, but I think the parents made an enormous mistake putting this 16 year old girl in the situation that she's in. I have a friend with a 17 year old daughter, and I know that people are different, but I can't imagine putting that girl under the pressure Michelle is under.
I hope she excells, but I fear a lot of things could go wrong as well, which would be unfortunate to see happen to a very talented, very likeable young woman.
Come on.......you're taking all the fun out of the Wie debates .......by being sensible!
I'll try and knock it off!
But seriously, how can her parents say with a straight face, "We want her to have a normal childhood," then in the same breath say, "Yes, Michelle, dear. Just sign right there, on the dotted line"?
If she delivers, no harm done. But if she should hapen to start to struggle, it could really wind up snowballing on her...
On the issue of her play down the stretch:
- Sony 04, she finished excellently as stated, and actually thought she had made the cut when she sunk her putt.
- Sony 05, not in contention.
- John Deere Classic, played brilliantly, but appeared to be playing at her absolute optimum level. This is very difficult for anyone to maintain for a full two rounds. I stated before that if her optimum was some shots better she should make the cut alot easier. It is not easy trying to make a cut when you need to play you absolute best the whole way just to do it.
Also, despite her beautiful play, she missed many makable birdie putts which would have given her that cushion.
Furthermore, she showed some immaturity in trying to go for too much coming down the stretch. So saying the John Deere was down to pressure is not looking at all the facts.
- Casio Open, 2 bogeys in the last 2 holes, especially considering that the last hole wasn't a particularly difficult par 5, suggests that it has to be pressure related.
- Sony Open 06, here she simply played badly in round 1. Where a more experienced player might have not dropped so many shots, in order to still be in with a chance, she let too many shots cheaply slip away. That meant her great performance on the 2nd day wasn't enough to rescue the situation. She learned a valuable lesson from that experience.
She has learned valuable lessons in each of her pga tour expeiences.
When Tiger missed his first 7 pga tour cuts, I would say that he probably learned lots of valuable lessons too, which helped his career.
Again, IMHO the whole comparrison to other players and cuts they missed and when and how is a fool's errand. Rounds of golf by different players on different courses in different conditions against different fields in different decades - there are siply way too many variables to effectively and honestly compare the two.
And as far as her learning from the most recent Sony experience, that's entirely impossible to evaluate at this point. The only way to know is a) to know WHY she played so poorly on Round 1 (and there may be more than one cause), and b) to see how she plays in the future.
Again, IMHO the whole comparrison to other players and cuts they missed and when and how is a fool's errand. Rounds of golf by different players on different courses in different conditions against different fields in different decades - there are siply way too many variables to effectively and honestly compare the two.
Comparisons are useful, because it shows that dismissing her as having absolutely no chance BASED ON HER PERFORMANCES in pga events so far is silly, given that her performances are far better than people who did actually go on to have quite a bit of success.
That doesn't mean she will have success, but it does mean that those who dismiss her based on 4 tries are being very premature in their denouncements of her and her career in golf.
Comparisons are useful, because it shows that dismissing her as having absolutely no chance BASED ON HER PERFORMANCES in pga events so far is silly, given that her performances are far better than people who did actually go on to have quite a bit of success.
I agree with the part that I bolded. The rest I just don't see any basis for the claim. Comparisons are useful - when they are grounded reasonably. You can't compare the Tour today with 10-11 years ago.
I agree with the part that I bolded. The rest I just don't see any basis for the claim. Comparisons are useful - when they are grounded reasonably. You can't compare the Tour today with 10-11 years ago.
True, but the tour is stronger now, so it is harder for her than it was for Tiger. Or do you think it was stronger back then?
I think the players are fitter and better in general.
True, but the tour is stronger now, so it is harder for her than it was for Tiger. Or do you think it was stronger back then?
I think the players are fitter and better in general.
How much has the scoring average changed since then? I don't think you can necessarily say that players are better now....
True, but the tour is stronger now, so it is harder for her than it was for Tiger. Or do you think it was stronger back then?
I think the players are fitter and better in general.
There are more non-Americans amongst the top players currently on the PGA Tour than 10 years ago, but I'm not sure that you could make a case for the tour being tougher or the players being fitter. In fact many who were amongst the best then are still very successful today, some finding more success well into their 40s than the did 10 years ago(Perry, Funk, VJ, Hass). I'd bet more 40+ Y/O golfers have been successful in the past couple of years than at any time in the history of the game. That doesn't support a case for the Tour being stronger or players "fitter" currently, IMO.
With Rodney C's point of players stronger, wouldn't Michelle Wie be better able to win because she came up with the knowledge that Tiger didn't have as a youth. She knew more about fitness, had his swing and others to emulate. I wish her well in any event she qualifies to play in, otherwise she gets what she gets. If she could beat 16 year old boys I see weekend and weekout then I would say she has talent worthy of being in a men's event. As long as score is kept as the defining point of winning and losing, she should win at the ladies level, but it won't happen at the highest level, sorry.
As long as score is kept as the defining point of winning and losing, she should win at the ladies level, but it won't happen at the highest level, sorry.
I agree with your statement but keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to win on the PGA Tour to be successful.
If she could beat 16 year old boys I see weekend and weekout then I would say she has talent worthy of being in a men's event.
So she just equaled or beat 27 touring pros in a PGA tournament last week including a 3 major winners, but you know all of these 16 year-old boys who are better than her ? Is that your claim ? What exactly is that based on ? I agree that she's better suited for the LPGA, but until she can play a full schedule there I suspect we'll continue to see her playing against the guys once in a while. It's not as if she's embarrassed herself in that element.
Last edited by wazmankg : January 21st, 2006 at 01:29 AM.