Good question. Not sure I can answer it, but here's some info that might be relevant.
Par for the Torrey Pines South Course (where they're playing today) is 72. According to http://www.golfserv.com/apps/courses....asp?crs=12420, from the Championship tees, the course rating is 74.6 and the slope is 136. However, the yardage given for the Championship tees is 7055 yds. According to the PGA Tour site (http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/r004), the yardage is 7208 yards, so it would appear that the Tour lengthened the course a little, so the course rating and slope would be a little higher.
PGA Tour pro's are not scratch players (HDCP = 0), of course; they're better than that. I have no idea what Tiger's HDCP would be. Could it really be as low as +9 or +10 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...2/ai_73959562). If so, he'd be maybe about a +4 or +5 on a course with a slope higher than 136 (e.g., maybe the Tour set-up puts the South Course into the 140s?). If so, maybe he'd be shooting about four-under-par on one of his better days? So, if he has two good days and two OK days (by Tiger standards), he should be about 10 or 12 under for four rounds?
Just speculating for fun here. Tiger did finish regulation play at 10 under, so maybe I'm on the right track. Or maybe it's coincidence. Anyone have any ideas?
Good question. Not sure I can answer it, but here's some info that might be relevant.
Par for the Torrey Pines South Course (where they're playing today) is 72. According to http://www.golfserv.com/apps/courses....asp?crs=12420, from the Championship tees, the course rating is 74.6 and the slope is 136. However, the yardage given for the Championship tees is 7055 yds. According to the PGA Tour site (http://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/r004), the yardage is 7208 yards, so it would appear that the Tour lengthened the course a little, so the course rating and slope would be a little higher.
PGA Tour pro's are not scratch players (HDCP = 0), of course; they're better than that. I have no idea what Tiger's HDCP would be. Could it really be as low as +9 or +10 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...2/ai_73959562). If so, he'd be maybe about a +4 or +5 on a course with a slope higher than 136 (e.g., maybe the Tour set-up puts the South Course into the 140s?). If so, maybe he'd be shooting about four-under-par on one of his better days? So, if he has two good days and two OK days (by Tiger standards), he should be about 10 or 12 under for four rounds?
Just speculating for fun here. Tiger did finish regulation play at 10 under, so maybe I'm on the right track. Or maybe it's coincidence. Anyone have any ideas?
I see nothing wrong with your logic, and it's backed up with reputable stats. Good to see Tiger win today, but a shame to see Olazabel lose like that.
For the first 3 rounds they made the course seem rather easy. Until today. I couldn't get over how badly a bunch of them were playing. I only got to watch about the last two hours or so of it but in that two hours I was not impressed with anyones play. Especially Sergio. He was putting great until today. I dont' know what it was. Where the conditions any different today? They didn't seem it.
Pin positions were much tougher today than they were for the rest of the week. Plus it's the pressure of Sunday afternoon, the closing stretch, all that. It was sad but not unexpected to see Nathan Green fall apart in the 1st playoff hole, for example.
I wanted to go play for myself, but as soon as I mentioned playing Torrey Pines my In-Laws laughed and said I wasn't ready for a course like that. Maybe they're jeolous because I pay a County Resident rate while they are from Mexico and pay the full price. Any way, now I will just have to go without them
I wanted to go play for myself, but as soon as I mentioned playing Torrey Pines my In-Laws laughed and said I wasn't ready for a course like that. Maybe they're jeolous because I pay a County Resident rate while they are from Mexico and pay the full price. Any way, now I will just have to go without them
If you indeed do get to play Torrey Pines you have to do one thing for us. You have to play a couple of holes from the tips like the pros. Simp
I've played the South course two times, but both times were more than 10 years ago, before they made the recent changes. The course is now 7600 yards. The winning score was -10 this week, but the players all played the North Course for one round, which usually plays about 4 shots easier than the south. If the players had played all four rounds on the South course, I would guess that -8 would have won, (280).
When the US Open is there in 2008, it sounds like they might play as a Par 70, by shortening two of the Par 5's a little bit and playing them as Par 4's - including #18. With US Open greens and rough, there is no way that anyone will score even-par 280. It wouldn't surprise me if the winning score was around 285. (+5).
I've played the South course two times, but both times were more than 10 years ago, before they made the recent changes. The course is now 7600 yards. The winning score was -10 this week, but the players all played the North Course for one round, which usually plays about 4 shots easier than the south. If the players had played all four rounds on the South course, I would guess that -8 would have won, (280).
When the US Open is there in 2008, it sounds like they might play as a Par 70, by shortening two of the Par 5's a little bit and playing them as Par 4's - including #18. With US Open greens and rough, there is no way that anyone will score even-par 280. It wouldn't surprise me if the winning score was around 285. (+5).
Ya know, I think that you're right. That course is gonna play harder than any other course that they've played a US Open on I think. US Open greens, 25 yard wide fairways, US Open rough, 7600 yards at sea level with that heavy wet LaJolla air. Whew, that's gonna be one tough course. The only bad thing about it is that the folks in the Lajolla/San Diego area will probably loose that course for a month or so after the pros are done with it. After the PGA Championship at Baltusrol this past year they hauled in 45,000 square yards of sod to re-sod the place. Simp
How tough is it? 7,600 yards from the tips, pins tucked 3 paces from the edge in corners of greens (which were pretty bad from all the chatter yesterday)?
You tell me how tough it is!!
Last edited by mr3856a : January 30th, 2006 at 08:48 PM.
Reason: Inappropriate Language
How tough is the South Course at Torrey Pines? Phil Mickelson said it is the toughest course he plays on a regular basis.
Although the course stretches to 7,568 yards from the tips, they again used a couple of middle tees on some of the more difficult holes. I do not believe the Buick Invitational has seen even one round, as of yet, where all 18 holes were played from the tips.
I have also read that a couple new teeing areas will be added before the 2008 U.S. Open, and that the course will, in fact, play as long as 7,613 yards for that championship. I haven't heard or read what par will be. I doubt 72. And 70 just seems too brutal. I'm betting on 71. The winning score will still be over par.
How tough is the South Course at Torrey Pines? Phil Mickelson said it is the toughest course he plays on a regular basis.
Although the course stretches to 7,568 yards from the tips, they again used a couple of middle tees on some of the more difficult holes. I do not believe the Buick Invitational has seen even one round, as of yet, where all 18 holes were played from the tips.
I have also read that a couple new teeing areas will be added before the 2008 U.S. Open, and that the course will, in fact, play as long as 7,613 yards for that championship. I haven't heard or read what par will be. I doubt 72. And 70 just seems too brutal. I'm betting on 71. The winning score will still be over par.
For my money the U.S. Open is the toughest major mentally on a player. The course setups tend to be absolutely brutal. Mentally a lot of guys just can't grind that hard for 72 holes where in a lot of situations saving par is considered GOOD.
I have also read that a couple new teeing areas will be added before the 2008 U.S. Open, and that the course will, in fact, play as long as 7,613 yards for that championship. I haven't heard or read what par will be. I doubt 72. And 70 just seems too brutal. I'm betting on 71. The winning score will still be over par.[/b]
The par for the 2008 US Open at Torrey Pines will be 70, they are converting 18 and one of the other par fives to be par fours. It should be brutal. I heard this on the Golf Channel. Hopefully the greens will be a little smoother, the putts were bouncing too much.
January 29th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Simp
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