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Old February 1st, 2006, 02:45 PM
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Some rather amazing statistics

I just read this in an article on the Yahoo sports pages - kinda gives you a bit of perspective:

- Only six players in their 20s have won at least two times on the PGA Tour, and three of those guys -- Ben Crane, Rory Sabbatini and Vaughn Taylor -- are a few months away from graduating to their 30's; Sergio Garcia leads the way, with 6 wins;

- Ben Curtis is the only player currently in his 20's to have won a major

I know it's a redundant topic, but compare that to what Tiger did in his 20's:

- 46 PGA Tour wins

- 10 Major championships

For some reason those statistics, that disparity, really shocked me.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:06 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
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Those are amazing statistics.
They also show how we shouldn't expect too much too young from any golfer. The thirties really do seem to be the overwhelming peak time for golfers.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:07 PM
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As the great Bobby Jones said to Jack Nicklaus upon Nicklaus' winning the '65 Masters, "You play a game with which I'm not familiar."

I'm sure everyone else is saying that about Tiger.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:08 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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Think perhaps the second part of your post has anything to do with the first? There are a lot of good golfers right around Tiger's age who have pretty much been the dirt on his spikes since they were 10 years old.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:12 PM
ce_me_golf ce_me_golf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
I just read this in an article on the Yahoo sports pages - kinda gives you a bit of perspective:

- Only six players in their 20s have won at least two times on the PGA Tour, and three of those guys -- Ben Crane, Rory Sabbatini and Vaughn Taylor -- are a few months away from graduating to their 30's; Sergio Garcia leads the way, with 6 wins;

- Ben Curtis is the only player currently in his 20's to have won a major

I know it's a redundant topic, but compare that to what Tiger did in his 20's:

- 46 PGA Tour wins

- 10 Major championships

For some reason those statistics, that disparity, really shocked me.
I think there a difference in playing really good golf and learning how to win on the PGA Tour. Most guys on tour can play really good golf when their games are on. But winning takes a added mental and psychological component. Some guys are able to get it with time, maturity and experience and some never will.

It's the mental and psychological part of the game the REALLY separates Tiger from everybody else. He proved it again last week at Torrey Pines. Physcially he certainly didn't play his best golf. But when it came to clutch time he did what he needed to do to keep himself in contention.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlcard_25
Think perhaps the second part of your post has anything to do with the first? There are a lot of good golfers right around Tiger's age who have pretty much been the dirt on his spikes since they were 10 years old.
Could very well be! Honestly, though, I was astounded at the disparity. To think that he had FORTY more wins than the next guy in his 20's (prior to Tiger turning 30 in December, he had 46, Sergio had 6)!!!

That's really incredible.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:20 PM
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I thought I heard during a PGA tournament that Jack acutally won more tournaments in his 30's than his 20's. Scary if Tiger does the same. Tiger is one of thos rare athletes who can dominate - Michael and Wayne, to name a few. And it's interesting you don't need to know their last names.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:30 PM
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That is quite some statistic isn't it. That said, picking Tiger's 20s is a little unfair on the younger generation. What happens if you say over the last 10 years and compare him with everyone else. Since Tiger turned pro and excluding Tiger, Vijay leads the way for majors with 3, followed by Ernie, Phil and Retief with 2 each. Furyk, Toms, Campbell M and Olazabal are the only other top 25 players with a major championship. As to tournament victories, Vijay is comfortably top with 25. Mickelson has 18ish. I struggle to think of anyone else over the period who's won much. Ernie has 12 I think and Retief only 6. Anyone else? Can think of Furyk whose probably won a few over that period and maybe Duval, but it's a short list. Tiger's 46 tournaments and 10 majors puts everyone in the shade, not just those under 30.

Bottom line is that Tiger is a freak. He's one of a kind and comparing him with anyone else is pretty harsh. Indeed to get a fair comparison, you have to delve into history for players who in all fairness, played against shallower fields with fewer competitors.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:37 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
Could very well be! Honestly, though, I was astounded at the disparity. To think that he had FORTY more wins than the next guy in his 20's (prior to Tiger turning 30 in December, he had 46, Sergio had 6)!!!

That's really incredible.
Hold on just a minute.

Firstly Sergio just turned 26, a few weeks ago, so he still has 4 years before he turns 30.
Next, Sergio is from Europe and has won 6 titles there. Obviously playing in Europe alot as well as the statest cuts down his opportunities on the US tour, although it has become his main tour.
Sergio has also won twice in South Africa and once in Korea.

So Sergio has 15 titles. and four years to go.

Tiger also has international victories, but a higher percentage of Sergio's would be international, with him not being a US player.

Obviously Tiger is still way way better than him, but let's not overstate it.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:46 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
Hold on just a minute.

Firstly Sergio just turned 26, a few weeks ago, so he still has 4 years before he turns 30.
Next, Sergio is from Europe and has won 6 titles there. Obviously playing in Europe alot as well as the statest cuts down his opportunities on the US tour, although it has become his main tour.
Sergio has also won twice in South Africa and once in Korea.

So Sergio has 15 titles. and four years to go.

Tiger also has international victories, but a higher percentage of Sergio's would be international, with him not being a US player.

Obviously Tiger is still way way better than him, but let's not overstate it.
55-15 is still a pretty big disparity. So if Sergio can win 10 titles a year til he turns 30, then he'll be looking pretty good.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:49 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ty_Webb
That is quite some statistic isn't it. That said, picking Tiger's 20s is a little unfair on the younger generation. What happens if you say over the last 10 years and compare him with everyone else.

As to tournament victories, Vijay is comfortably top with 25. Mickelson has 18ish. I struggle to think of anyone else over the period who's won much. Ernie has 12 I think and Retief only 6. Anyone else? Can think of Furyk whose probably won a few over that period and maybe Duval, but it's a short list. Tiger's 46 tournaments and 10 majors puts everyone in the shade, not just those under 30.
You are neglecting to mention that Ernie Els is an international player.
He has 13 pga victories in the last 10 years, but he also has 26 international victories in that period.

Matching Tiger versus Ernie in that time period:
Tiger: USPGA wins 47. Other wins 8. Total 55.
Ernie: USPGA wins 13. Other wins 26. Total 39.

Obviously Tiger has done better, but Ernie has been the 2nd best player, over that time period, in my opinion.

For the record, in the same time period:
Vijay: USPGA wins 25. Other wins 6. Total 31.

I think Ernie being an international player is an important factor.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
Hold on just a minute.

Firstly Sergio just turned 26, a few weeks ago, so he still has 4 years before he turns 30.
Next, Sergio is from Europe and has won 6 titles there. Obviously playing in Europe alot as well as the statest cuts down his opportunities on the US tour, although it has become his main tour.
Sergio has also won twice in South Africa and once in Korea.

So Sergio has 15 titles. and four years to go.

Tiger also has international victories, but a higher percentage of Sergio's would be international, with him not being a US player.

Obviously Tiger is still way way better than him, but let's not overstate it.
Taking all your points - and good ones all they are - into account, I still don't think the point was overstated.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
You are neglecting to mention that Ernie Els is an international player.
He has 13 pga victories in the last 10 years, but he also has 26 international victories in that period.

Matching Tiger versus Ernie in that time period:
Tiger: USPGA wins 47. Other wins 8. Total 55.
Ernie: USPGA wins 13. Other wins 26. Total 39.

Obviously Tiger has done better, but Ernie has been the 2nd best player, over that time period, in my opinion.

For the record, in the same time period:
Vijay: USPGA wins 25. Other wins 6. Total 31.

I think Ernie being an international player is an important factor.
Because the USPGA wins were more difficult on the whole, I'd have to say Vijay was the second best player over that time (he is 2 in the world, after all) over that time. Phil, Ernie and the Goose follow, not necessarily in that order.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 04:19 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
Because the USPGA wins were more difficult on the whole, I'd have to say Vijay was the second best player over that time (he is 2 in the world, after all) over that time. Phil, Ernie and the Goose follow, not necessarily in that order.
Vijay is number 2 at the moment, but we are talking about a 10 year time period arn't we?
A quick scan of the last 10 years of rankings shows, Vijay finished ahead of Ernie the last 3 years, but Ernie was well ahead of Vijay for the previous 7.

If you were going to take the time period of the last 5 years, Vijay would certainly be ahead, although most of that due to a terrific 2004, but for the last 10 years Ernie was consistantly ahead of Vijay.
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Old February 1st, 2006, 04:21 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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Vijay also has 3 majors in the last 10 years while Ernie has 2. It is really close to say who has been better though...Ernie has been Tiger's most consistent challenger probably, although Vijay has made a run at that the last few years while Ernie had a couple off-years.
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