Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that the course changes we talk about are proposed to affect only the touring pros. The courses that have become obsolete for the PGA Tour are certainly playable by normal human standards.
Most of us amateurs don't worry too much about the ball flying too far, the COR of club faces, or playing 7500+ yard courses. I know I don't anyway!
Exactly!! For all of the thots on what needs to be done to encourage 'shot making' (whatever that means), NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, on this board has ANYTHING in common with somebody playing professional golf. NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL!!!!! Compared to the guys on the tour, our idea of 'shot making' is to just get the blasted thing airborne. I never want to hear anyone talk about how a course requires you to become a 'shot maker', as if any us can manufacture a shot on demand. That's not to say we're incapable of hitting a great shot now and then, but PLEASE, PLEASE don't compare what some courses do to challenge the shot making capabilities of the tour players and relate it to anything any of us here to our games. The only thing I have in common with a pro golfer is that we are trying to hit it into the same sized cup. That's it.
Architects don't need to make courses that make the pros 'use every club in the bag' (another cliche that makes me ) THEY NEED TO MAKE THEM EASIER SO MORE PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS GAME!!!!!! I've played too many courses that are just simply too hard for the average golfer, even if playing for the right set of tee boxes. I'm also sure that IF the Tour ever played an event at these places, they'd shoot -20 and people would be complaining about how this course was WAY too easy
Here's the cold hard truth: contrary to popular belief, golf is not growing. One major reason is that it's very difficult to find an affordable, playable, well conditioned courses that the average golfer (i.e. the bogey golfer) can enjoy. Who cares what Augusta does to challenge the guys on Tour? I'm more concerned about what courses that all of us here can play to make them more playable, not more 'challenging'.
Last edited by greenguy : May 3rd, 2006 at 06:28 AM.
Quite a loaded post from Greenguy. I do not recall anyone on this board equating what the pros do to what they've been doing on the course.
Every thread at GR regarding golf course architecture and "shotmaking," especially in this very thread, has been directed towards what the pros are doing.
And, as for whether or not golf is growing, all I know is this: whenever I go to any of the several munis in and around the greater Los Angeles area, they are always...always...packed. I imagine the same can be said about San Francisco, Dallas, Miami, Phoenix, etc.
Exactly!! For all of the thots on what needs to be done to encourage 'shot making' (whatever that means), NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY, on this board has ANYTHING in common with somebody playing professional golf. NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL!!!!! Compared to the guys on the tour, our idea of 'shot making' is to just get the blasted thing airborne. I never want to hear anyone talk about how a course requires you to become a 'shot maker', as if any us can manufacture a shot on demand. That's not to say we're incapable of hitting a great shot now and then, but PLEASE, PLEASE don't compare what some courses do to challenge the shot making capabilities of the tour players and relate it to anything any of us here to our games. The only thing I have in common with a pro golfer is that we are trying to hit it into the same sized cup. That's it.
Architects don't need to make courses that make the pros 'use every club in the bag' (another cliche that makes me ) THEY NEED TO MAKE THEM EASIER SO MORE PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS GAME!!!!!! I've played too many courses that are just simply too hard for the average golfer, even if playing for the right set of tee boxes. I'm also sure that IF the Tour ever played an event at these places, they'd shoot -20 and people would be complaining about how this course was WAY too easy
As had been noted a few post back, this particular thread is about Masters' Course Changes. We have been specifically speaking about the Augusta National and the lengthening of that course. I completely agree on the facts that we have nothing in common with tour players, but this thread isn't about us. In fact, this area of the Clubhouse is Tour Talk. Your rant has been heard and acknowledged, but may be misplaced here.
That being said, my local course has so much OB and is shoe-horned between houses in a subdivision so tightly, that the OB is played not as stroke and distance, but per local rule as a hazard. Just take a legal drop. So I'm with ya on the courses being difficult for the average guys.
A great majority of the courses the pros play are private. The members decide whether to kick up their courses for a tour event or not, then they are the ones to pay a penalty later. That's their choice. I don't know that anyone complains about Bethpage Black or Torrey Pines as far as the courses themselves go. The pros do play a different game, and we just go to tees that are more appropriate for us.
Last edited by leaguegolf : May 4th, 2006 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: fixed quote
What happened? Did you burn your retina looking at your shirts too often?
It was a sports injury. Leaguegolf was participating in a sport that was a bit too strenuous for the old guy....but I'm not allowed to talk about it. I'm sure he'll bounce back soon.
As had been noted a few post back, this particular thread is about Masters' Course Changes. We have been specifically speaking about the Augusta National and the lengthening of that course. I completely agree on the facts that we have nothing in common with tour players, but this thread isn't about us. In fact, this area of the Clubhouse is Tour Talk. Your rant has been heard and acknowledged, but may be misplaced here.
That being said, my local course has so much OB and is shoe-horned between houses in a subdivision so tightly, that the OB is played not as stroke and distance, but per local rule as a hazard. Just take a legal drop. So I'm with ya on the courses being difficult for the average guys.
A great majority of the courses the pros play are private. The members decide whether to kick up their courses for a tour event or not, then they are the ones to pay a penalty later. That's their choice. I don't know that anyone complains about Bethpage Black or Torrey Pines as far as the courses themselves go. The pros do play a different game, and we just go to tees that are more appropriate for us.
I guess I did kinda hijack this thread with my rant As far as Augusta goes, I think the pros should tee it up and keep their opinions to themselves. If you're going to really challenge these guys, I'm not sure you can make a course too long anymore. It's the members course and they can do what ever they want. If you don't like the changes, don't accept the invitation.
At least from what I could see on the TV, the only thing I would possibly change is deepening the 7th green, given they've stretched it out to have a longer iron approach. Other than that, there didn't seem to be really anything done that should have been that contraversial. Augusta has always favored to the long hitter. The fact the Clark finished so high on the leader board proves there's exception to every rule. I wouldn't expect Tim to compete year after year like that - his short game was unbelievable that week. Odds are that medim/short hitters will not do as well in the long term at Augusta.
May 3rd, 2006, 06:11 AM
) THEY NEED TO MAKE THEM EASIER SO MORE PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY ENJOY THIS GAME!!!!!! I've played too many courses that are just simply too hard for the average golfer, even if playing for the right set of tee boxes. I'm also sure that IF the Tour ever played an event at these places, they'd shoot -20 and people would be complaining about how this course was WAY too easy
I'm sure he'll bounce back soon. 
I guess I did kinda hijack this thread with my rant
As far as Augusta goes, I think the pros should tee it up and keep their opinions to themselves. If you're going to really challenge these guys, I'm not sure you can make a course too long anymore. It's the members course and they can do what ever they want. If you don't like the changes, don't accept the invitation.
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