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I still do not get all of the Hoopla surrounding MW. To me, a woman trying to compete with men is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole - it just doesn't fit.

How strong is this field? I honestly do not know. I read on anther BB that is was basically a club championship. This statement is either somewhat accurate or blown out of proportion to degrade MWs accomplishment.

I would think it is a bit of both. I say this because there are a lot of MW haters out there (I am one of the biggest), but I think there has to be a little truth to it as well. I make that statement because she is bvery careful in choosing weak PGA fields or courses she has played a million times to try for a PGA cut. The Sony is basically her home course and the John Deere is a very watered down field.

In the end, what is the point? Will she actually contend to win with the men? I doubt it. We shall see.

Yes indeed augiep38, it is pretty obvious how you feel about Michelle Wie.

As regards the strength of the field, let's put it this way. There are 6 major tours in the world of golf.
I assume you are familiar with the Canadian Tour. That tour is not one of the major tours.

As regards major tours:
pga tour is the best - indisputable.
euro tour is the 2nd best - indisputable.
for the other 4 tours, they are really much the same. It depends on individual events.

For this particular event, there is only 1 asian tour event that offers more prize money. There are 12 Asian tour events that offer less prize money. Therefore this is one of the most important events on the Asian Tour and one that the top players there want to win.

So calling it a club championship is just words from a bitter person, who is saddened and maddened that a 16 year old girl can compete so well at such a high level.

As regards choosing weak pga events, that is not true. She has played The Sony Open 3 times, which has a relatively high standard of players.
The only other event she has played is the John Deere. That event has a lower standard because it is the week before the open.
However she has not chosen to play in a weaker event, the weaker event has chosen her, if you can understand that. Basically events, that don't have many high profile players are looking for something to increase their audience and interest in their event. Those are the type of events who want to, and indeed offer Michelle exemptions.

In an event like this weeks pga tour event, they have most of the top players competing, basically they don't need Michelle Wie to sell their event.
So it is not that she is taking any easy option, try to remember this girl has always picked the highest available competition that she can. She has been critisised for that on many occasions, and people have complained that she should take on her peers. But every single time, she has gone to the best level that she has been allowed to play at. So please, whatever else you do, please don't accuse her of not wanting to play at the highest level.

On the will she contend point, I believe she is the best 16 year old golf player alive. Does that mean she will win future pga events? Not necessarily. However, she certainly has the potential to do so.

On competiting with the men. Why wouldn't she? She wants to compete at the highest level possible, and she has done well so far.

3rd Round Update

It was rained out.
The event has been cut to 3 rounds.

I think it is a real pity that she won't have the opportunity to complete 4 rounds there.
Also mr's suggestion that winning was still possible, is highly unlikely, since it has been cut to 54 holes. It was fairly unlikely anyway.

So for the 4th round, I'm hoping that she will play well.
A top 17 place, in order to get Official World Ranking Points would be absolutely fantastic, but she has excelled already.

It is not a strong field, but to compare it to a club championship is beyond ridiculous. She's 1 up on K.J. Choi and FWIW there is no such thing as a weak PGA field... some are stronger than others, but none are weak by any definition. Her worst 2 day total in a men's event is +4. I disagree with you about MW but I have to commend you for being honest, many anti-MWs are not. She is only going to get better, IMO. I hate to belabor the point, but she IS STILL JUST 16. She will make a PGA cut and she will have respectable finishes in PGA events. I doubt that she'll ever contend, but who knows. As you said, we shall see.

That is a very good point, and I predict that will be the next issue that comes up for debate in the Wie debate.

As she makes cuts on the pga tour, the next line of defence for those with anti-Wie inclinations will be to attack the quality of the fields in which she makes the cut.
She hasn't even made a cut yet, and already some people are trying to critise those events, just in case as a sort of a safety valve. So if she makes the cut, they can say, that was a rubbish tournament anyway with useless players.

Hopefully when she makes a pga cut, most people at least, will recognise what it means.
I've very optimistic that she will make a pga cut this year by the way.

Update

Michelle had a 74 in the final round. The conditions were very windy. She had 2 birdies and 4 bogeys. She finished tied for 35th, which was beyond my expectations going into the event. She won $4303, her first money earned playing against men. She can add that to her 700k appearance money she was given.

By the way
a -1, 71 would have put her tied 17th and got her some ranking points.
a -2, 70 would have put her in the top 10, tied 9th and got her even more ranking points.

I know I have come across as a hater of Michelle, but that is not true. I am actually a fan, but disappointed in her "quest". I think she needs to learn how to win an event, before taking on the the best players in the world. She has enormous talent, and obviously the backing to do what she wants, but I think she is going about it all wrong.

Actually, the tournament this week made more sense. There are men all over the world who would like to play on the PGA tour, against the best, who have skills equal to or better than Michelle. They are honing their skills on the smaller tours, and learning how to win, and then step up to the next level. Maybe the Asian tour, or that level is where she should play. This is the first cut she has made, so we know she can compete at this level. Keep playing these events until she can win. Once she can win, step up a level and prove herself there, and so on.

I don't think she has won an event since the Women's Public Links two years ago. The longer she goes without winning, the worse it will get. I think her handlers (father) need to steer this train a little better. She is 16, and she will have time to win on every tour if she learns how. She was near the lead last year in the Women's US Open and couldn't close the deal. She has contended in several events on the LPGA, but there is a difference between contending and winning.

Funnily enough, there are other people who claim that by playing The Asian Tour or the Japanese Tour that Michelle is ducking the competition on the pga tour. Some even claim that if she plays a weaker pga event, then that is ducking the best also.
One thing is for absolute sure. No matter what career path Michelle decided on, there would be plenty of people unhappy with her decision.
Personally I think she has got the balance just right.
- 8 lpga events, which is the maximum allowed.
- 3 pga events.
- 1 japanese and 1 asian tour event.
- us open qualification attempt.

I think this is a good balance.

This is something I like to discuss alot, because I have alot of experience in this area. I have dealt with many players and I have found absolutely no comparison between winning at different levels.
For example, I have had dealing with many amateur players who won extensively and then couldn't get to grips with the professional game, not to mind winning.
I've also dealt with challenge tour (nationwide equivalent in Europe) who have won extensively there, and then on the main tour, have got close but not won.

I can certainly say, that winning at a certain level does not teach a player how to close the deal at a higher level, especially when you get to the top level. Winning on the pga or european pga tour can only be learned there.

She could be waiting quite a while to win on the Asian Tour, and if she took your advice, wouldn't she be losing out on much valuable pga experience?

At the US Womens Open last year, Michelle Wie was in contention going into the final round and failed to win. The exact same thing could be said about at least 10 other players at that event.

If you want to harp on about that event, she had a really bad final round. The same thing happened to Paula Creamer who started just one shot behind Wie and shot a 79. The same thing happened to Annika just a week ago.

The reality is that Michelle Wie has not been in contention enough times for us to be able to make any definite judgement. Sure she has had 2nd, but many of them were distance 2nd places, so she wasn't really in contention.
This season, she has been in contention twice, and hasn't faltered down the stretch. They were alot different to the US Womens Open performance, so I think she is getting alot closer.
1 shot out of the playoffs on both occasions, and she finished strongly, particularly at The Fields Open.

She is certainly good enough to win at the lpga, so let her learn to win there.
The pga, at this stage of her career, is just good experience, which will hopefully stand to her.

I think we are in some agreement, but I disagree about learning to win. My point is that this is the first time in 8 attempts to qualify at a men's event that she actually got to play on a weekend. One stat I am sure of is that nobody has ever gone on to win an event after missing a cut.

I don't think it is great golf tournament experience to miss a cut. What do you learn there, that you couldn't learn playing in a lesser tour event and playing four days???

She is competitive on the LPGA, and she was this week on the Asian/Korean PGA Tour.

You know her record better than I, so I don't know how she fared in her ameteur career, outside of her Pub-Links victory. I think that is pointing to an issue, in my eyes.

Corporate America can use, abuse and throw away people. Is she ready for all this??? She is 16 years old, and her dad and Sponsors are pimping her out in a manner that is in my opinion, not good. Nobody can doubt her abilities at 16 are incredible, and the potential is even better, but why push so hard.

I think we can agree to disagree on Michelle Wie. I can understand why people like yourself feel it is great for her to play in PGA events, and different events around the world.

People like me see what could be the future face of women's golf, and then realize she doesn't want to be that. Do you think the men are going to welcome her in as a full PGA Tour member???

Eventually the polish will where off, and listening to some of the people on the golf channel, I would say that the shine is leaving already. What will her place be in golf??? I would like to see her be more than a spectacle at golf events. My biggest fear for her is that trying to fit in everywhere she will fit in nowhere.

You are right in saying that she won't learn to win while playing pga events at this stage. However she will learn alot. Playing practice rounds with the likes of Ernie Els is bound to teach her alot, and I think it has done. Annika also says that she learns alot any time she plays with the men. Just look at how much Tiger has helped her.


I think coming so close to making cuts has thought her alot. Maybe she wouldn't be learning if she were missing cuts by miles, but just think of The Casio in Japan last year. She missed by 1 with 2 bogies in the last 2 holes. In my opinion, she learned alot, and I think that helped her make this cut.
If she hadn't played all those 7 events, would she have made the cut at the SK Telecom? I don't think she would have. So although she missed the cut the other times, maybe they helped her this time.


In the Publinks, in defense of her title, she got to the final the following year, which is a pretty good defense.
She didn't play that much in other events.
At age 12, she qualified for an lpga event, and since then she has played at the highest level that she has been allowed to.
On the amateur side, Morgan Pressel won the Amateur Championships by a country mile last year, and yet she hasn't been able to perform to near the standard of Wie this season.


I think that's going a bit far. I think she is just playing golf and enjoying the attention. I do share your concerns as regards the money, appearance fees, and I'm not overly happy about appearances at baseball games and things like that.


If she makes it on the pga tour, she will be the face of women's golf. She'll still play lpga majors, and important events, and the lpga wouldn't be so silly as to not try to get her as much as they could.
There is nothing to stop her playing both tours. Many men play pga and european tours.


What men are you talking about? The pga members?
To be honest, one of the things I admire about her most, is she'll be happy if they do, and if they don't she won't be bothered.
The truth will lie somewhere between.
Some men will accept her. Some won't. In last years mens amateur publinx, she qualified just like everyone else did, and yet some of the players said she shouldn't be allowed play because she was a female. There will be plenty of these kinds of guys who wouldn't care if she were the best player in the world male or female, they still wouldn't want her there.
Most men though will accept her provides she qualifies. They wouldn't accept constant invites with cuts being missed for years on end, but if she is competitive, and I think she will be, then most will accept her.


The golf channel. Don't talk to me about the golf channel. I watched their lpga coverage, and they show a shot, and then show 3 ads, then they show 2 shots, and then 5 ads, then they go to a woman at a desk talking drivel. Why won't they just let us watch the golf?

Anyway, please don't have too many fears for her yet. I think she has plenty of time to make her mind up. Whatever way it goes, she should have this year and next where she will be at school.
I'm happy for her to play the schedule she is. I understand you'd probably prefer if she played some ladies event in Europe or Japan.
Both choices have their merits, but I doubt the Wie's will take either of our deliberations into account.

Don't take this as a disagreement but merely to add some additional thought to Babe making the cut on the PGA tour. I was trying to find some additional information regarding those events to see the type of field she was playing and what her scores were and things like that since this has been brought up.

While checking, I noticed that the majors weren't being played for several years, 1943 and 1944 I think I read and it had to do with the war years. I wonder how many of the PGA tour players were involved in serving in the armed services at that time.

My question also is, do you have or have you be able to see what the cut line was and who might have been playing with her in those tournaments. Just interested. Not trying to compare. I did find an article where she was asked how she could hit the ball so far as a slight woman. The distance was 250. Seems even the tiniest of the LPGA players are hitting the ball that far now and further, so it would seem technology is certainly helping.

Almost all of the top young players play a mix of events in which they're competitive and events which are 'stretch' events for them in the sense of stretching their game and level of competition. As you indicate, Wie at 16 is already competitive on the LPGA Tour, so where can she go to stretch herself and develop herself even more as a player? The answer, of course, is men's events!

As for missing a bunch of cuts, that's fairly standard for young players on the PGA Tour. Even Tiger missed his first seven cuts on the PGA Tour (from ages 16 to 19), and usually by significantly larger margins than Wie has missed her PGA Tour cuts at ages 14 through 16. Tiger has said that those missed cuts were valuable learning experiences for him. They prepared him for his Tour debut at age 20. And isn't that what Wie is doing...getting ready?

I remember watching a panel of top female pros, past and present, on The Golf Channel. They were discussing whether playing up against boys and men had any advantages for female golfers. All of them said that they had done so in high school and some even in college and they thought that experience was very valuable. On that panel was Nancy Lopez, who has always been very critical of Michelle Wie's play against the men. Strangely, Nancy was only full of praise for the idea of playing against male competition to better your game. Unfortunately, Nancy could not see or would not allow herself to see the contradiction between that position and her opinion that Michelle should stick to the LPGA Tour.

Some of those old biddies, as they were referred to in another forum, really don't understand what Wie is doing. I think they might begin to grasp it as her career develops.

It is all very well for them to want her to be commited to the lpga. What they don't appear to understand is that her appearances against men are gaining her massive appeal. In turn that appeal follows her when she plays in lpga events.

If she just competed in lpga events, there wouldn't be half the interest around her, and the lpga wouldn't have got the massive increase in exposure that it has since she started, and that it gets every time she plays in it.

The lpga should basically just thank her and do what they can be facilitate her and her ambitions.

Ladies should compete against men when they have beaten the ladies. Until a lady wins a clutch of Majors a la Annika , she should not be competing with men.

Michelle Wie is a huge talent on the course who is being derailed off the course by the marketing men. Making a cut in a nothing men's event in Korea is not going to help her game as much as winning on the LGPA Tour,something she has not yet done...........

On when ladies should compete against men, in my opinion, if someone gets the exemptions that MW has, and then plays as well as she has they should get more.
Maybe we can agree on one point. Annika, with all her majors and wins wouldn't do as well as Michelle against the men.
So what is the point in Annika competing in pga events. Perhaps you disagree?
In any case, if Annika wanted exemptions she would have absolutely no problem getting exemptions on the pga tour.

On making that cut, I think it will help her confidence alot, and could very well help her to make a pga cut this year. Had she not made the cut, it would have been much more difficult. So I don't think it was a pointless exercise.