Actually, it seems to me as though Tiger is thin-skinned to a point. And that point is if you don't know him well. He is apparently a practical jokester and "needler" behind closed doors IF you know him well. That's how O'Meara, Gretzsky, Barkley, Jordan, and his other good friends describe him. Faldo, in my opinion, is just a hilarious guy. I love sarcastic humor and he's very good at it. I've never had any problems with any of his comments about Tiger. He seems pretty fair to me, and as I said before, he's downright hilarious. The other cool thing about him, like Johnny Miller, is that he's been there and done that. They both have a lot of credibility in my book, so if they criticize even Tiger, it's fair game in my book. Even if Tiger and Phil have done more than Miller (majors wise), I still think proven announcers like Miller and Faldo can say the cold, hard truth if they want to. There's nothing wrong with *not* sugar-coating things.
Well I am happy to agree with you on those points, TTU. Both Faldo and Miller do a very good job of telling it like it is. Nothing personal on our disagreement, tis natural to butt a head or two along the way whilst sharing opinions.
I've also read of Tiger's supposed private wit and ability to tweak his pards with a lot of give and take. Would that we saw it more in public.
As I said in my original post, the man acquits himself nicely on the whole. We can quibble about minor points, but compared to some of the misogynistic addicts which litter other sports, we should be thankful Tiger is an adequate ambassador for the game.
The scoring average back in Nicklauses time verses today, is not very different(less than 2 strokes). The balls and equipment are very, very different. Remember the wound, balata balls that felt like hitting rocks compared with todays balls. Remember how the greats of that generation - not just Nicklaus - worked the ball - the distance they got with the equipment they had - I do and if you took todays greats and had them play with the old equipment, I'm willing to bet they couldn't come close to doing what they did then.
No offense, but that's kind of a silly argument. If you look at the past vs. today in terms of field strength, no question there are fewer truly great players today than there used to be. But, there are WAY MORE, and I do mean WAY MORE, very good players in the fields today. Just look at the difference in scoring average from top to bottom nowadays vs. 30 years ago. THAT is where technology has had a huge impact. It helps good players become even better than they would be with older equipment.
BUT, the very top echelon of golfers (meaning Tiger, Phil, Vijay, Els, etc.) are VERY talented. I would say Tiger is the most talented ever and Phil isn't far behind at all. Arnold Palmer once said in the mid-90's that he saw Tiger hitting a persimmon wood on the driving range and it was the best he'd ever seen with those kind of clubs. Talent is talent, and while I agree that equipment has helped many modern players, I would say that the very best players of today would be very competitive (and as I've said before, Tiger in his prime would slaughter pretty much everyone back in the 1960s or 1970s REGARDLESS of equipment) against past great players.
Well I am happy to agree with you on those points, TTU. Both Faldo and Miller do a very good job of telling it like it is. Nothing personal on our disagreement, tis natural to butt a head or two along the way whilst sharing opinions.
I've also read of Tiger's supposed private wit and ability to tweak his pards with a lot of give and take. Would that we saw it more in public.
As I said in my original post, the man acquits himself nicely on the whole. We can quibble about minor points, but compared to some of the misogynistic addicts which litter other sports, we should be thankful Tiger is an adequate ambassador for the game.
BPC, I completely agree. I guess all I can say is that Tiger hides that wit most of the time because of getting burned by GQ back in the day. Too bad that had to happen, otherwise he might have not become such a "programmed" athlete like MJ was. Then again, he still might have ended up that way seeing as how money talks and Nike provides that money.
I don't want to sound petty or mean spirited, but IMO he (Tiger) simply lacks class sometimes. That's something you either have or you don't.
As for Faldo, while he did have his arrogant and surly days when he was the top dog, I think he has endeared himself to many the last few years. He has definitely mellowed, refined his self-deprecation, and has evolved into a public persona which is genuine and likeable. He's no saint, but I think this is kept alive by Tiger's reluctance to let it go, not any effort by Nick fanning the flames.
I agree - Faldo has grown, Tiger is still growing.
But IF Faldo is in the hunt come Sunday, he will quite naturally morph into his competitive personna of yesteryear. Think of Jack Nicklaus at 46 stalking a putt with his tongue out and his putter raised at the '86 Masters while his prey looked on and listened..... that's killer instinct and Faldo has it. He made "Foldo" a footnote.
Nick just hasn't had any reason to put on his game-face in a while. It's still there and it's probably the only part of his game that he can really count on. Playing with Tiger can only help him but he'll need lightning in a bottle.
14and18 - yes, you are correct about the balls, and yes talent is talent, so I'll stipulate that comparisons are unfair. So, back to the origanal statement involving Faldo and Tiger. Faldo was a machine in his hey-day as Nicklaus was in his and Tiger is today and during each period, the equipment is different as are the conditions. All 3 are hugely talented and, i think, it's impossible to compare that talent. As an example, Tiger first picked up a golf club at about 1 years old and focused on it his whole life while Faldo didn't pick up a club until he was 16 - and a scratch golfer by 19. To me, that suggests a lot of talent so who's to say he wouldn't have been even better if he too started when he was 1 or 2 years old. Faldo was married in his early 20s so his focus wasn't as concentrated as Tigers was in his early 20s. So, too many mitigating factors to say who would dominate who in any era.
Looked like a non-event as they laughed and small talked walking down the fairway.
yep and Faldo asked Woods for his driver for Faldo's son seeing as he isn't hitting driver this week, i took it as being a joke, dont know whether Woods gave him the driver or not.
Q. Obviously The R&A has a completely different philosophy in setting up the course than the USGA. If you're going to shoot 20 under, go ahead and shoot 20 under. Do you like that compared to the U.S. Open?
TIGER WOODS: Well, it's just different. Here, if you set up like U.S. Open site, which Carnoustie was, and if it blows, that's what's going to happen. You're going to see everyone shoot really high scores. But I think that when you come over here you play you know the golf course is always going to be fair, and it's just a matter of the weather. If we get brutal days like it was at Muirfield on Saturday, that's what's going to happen. Or you get great days, like it's been here all week, you can shoot some good numbers.
But it's all dependent on weather here. I think that's what The R&A allows for. Each day they adjust the pins based upon weather, and it's kind of nice to see.
Q. You've touched on this already, but if somebody, when this tournament is over and you go home, asked you what distinguishes Hoylake from the other courses of The Open Championship, what would you say?
TIGER WOODS: I think it's probably the fact that it's you have so many ways of playing the golf course. It's not just one way. You have the option of playing the way I am. You have the option of playing how John Daly is playing. You have plenty of options. Or somewhere in between and try to roll the ball between the bunkers. You have so many options here, and it's just a fun way to play golf, because you don't get a chance to play golf like this, where you have so many options. Usually it's target golf and you play to some target and hit another target island somewhere.
This week it's so different. You've got to be creative and you've got to really understand how to control your ball.
Faldo's Post Opening 36 Q&A...
Quote:
Q. Nick, you haven't been playing much, you've done a lot of TV work, why would you put yourself under this pressure to come here and try and play on a golf course so difficult?
NICK FALDO: I wasn't intending to put myself under that much pressure. I was hoping to get a nice quiet draw, maybe with Mr. Watson or maybe Mr. Ballesteros. Maybe that's what the crowd would have liked. Instead I get Tiger and get thrown into the deep end.
And I only had a week's practice and that was a tough experience. I didn't enjoy that, because you're playing under pressure and you're just not prepared for it. I used to beat balls and hit millions of balls to boost my confidence. I've only hit hundreds in the last week. Obviously my game is very rusty and that was hard work so I don't think I'll do that again to myself. If I'm going to play again I need a good couple of weeks practice and I've got to get some confidence in my putting before I get back on the golf course again.
Q. Are you going to put your TV hat on now and see if anybody can beat Tiger this weekend?
NICK FALDO: Not really. He's got a great game plan, playing so many irons. If he keeps it totally in play and doesn't scare himself missing a fairway or getting a bad lie then anything can happen. But his touch is so good, his competitive ability is the best, I would predict that if the weather stays decent, he will get to 20 under and good luck. How are they going to beat him with that score?
I've only had a week's practice and then I was thrown in with Tiger and that's not what I was looking for this week. Watson and Ballesteros would have been a good draw, that's maybe what the crowd were looking for, 11 Open Championships between us. But I didn't get that, I was thrown in the deep end and I've only done a little work on my game and I need to practice more and I need to get a putting stroke if I'm going to play again. So I'm not too keen on venturing onto the golf course for a while.
But it's great to be at close quarters with Tiger. I can see what's going on. I should be able to tell ABC viewers up close and personal this weekend.
Q. You didn't like what was written about you and Tiger before the tournament?
NICK FALDO: No, it was the usual, complete mountain out of a molehill. Fortunately I don't read it, which is even better tactics.
Q. Did somebody tell you about it then?
NICK FALDO: A pigeon flew past and crapped on me, and I guess that was the message. I knew something was coming.
Q. Has your opinion changed on his golf swing and some of the technical aspects of his game?
NICK FALDO: There are some shots actually that he is uncomfortable on. I can see some technical things in his swing, yeah. But he gets by because he is so physically strong and so mentally determined and such a great competitor that, yeah, there are some technical things in his swing that if he were honest he'd say he'd love to iron out.
He's got a good plan. If he can keep hitting those irons, coming from the fairway he'll be just short of impossible to beat.
Q. Another player thought he said the swing changes he was working on with Hank were designed to help him control the trajectory, especially on his irons, and if you watch him he's clearly doing that and is able to hit more and varied shots?
NICK FALDO: The thing now is that the ball doesn't curve as much and you have to work on the swing factor. The guys will develop different follow throughs to develop different spins and that's what you need. Some shots it will stop and some that will run. You have to do that in your swing to make that happen. That obviously affects ball flight as well.
Q. Does the fact that Tiger has only hit one driver in two rounds sort of take something away from the first two days?
NICK FALDO: It doesn't sound great in the stats, does it? Obviously he's long, that does help. And even yesterday's drive on 16 was the wrong club. He should have hit 3 wood. It should have been 0 0 for two days. It just shows you it's all down to the burnt golf course. It is short.
While we probably don't know all the facts, this situation is very similar to the experience several media members have had with Tiger over the years. If you write a critical article or question his swing changes on air, you're on his black list. Peter Kostis had some harsh comments about Woods' swing changes when the Great One started working with Haney, and suddenly found out world #1 would no longer do post round interviews with him. Several writers have had similar experiences.
Think about it. You're a member of the media. The biggest story in golf will cut you off cold if deign to be honest with your opinions. Think that has any affect on how they report?
I think for the most part Tiger handles himself well, and he represents his sport adequately. Nevertheless, he's no Roger Federer. He lacks any hint of humility, and while he's his own man, he never learned to lose with the dignity and grace Nicklaus consistently showed us. He does a lot of good work through his foundation, but would anyone say he has the generosity of spirit like Palmer?
Look at the way Woods left Fuzzy twisting in the wind after his dumb remarks at the 1997 Masters. Or that flap with Vijay over his caddy's "Tiger Who?" cap. He gets into these terribly small minded tiffs. Everyone remembers Trevino pulling out the snake and tossing it at Jack on the first tee of an 18-hole playoff. Did Jack make a big deal out of it, or blame Lee's antics for losing? Of course not. You never heard of Arnold having bad blood with anyone, in golf or business.
Tough acts to follow, but it is quite fair for someone of his stature should be held to those kind of high standards.
I don't want to sound petty or mean spirited, but IMO he simply lacks class sometimes. That's something you either have or you don't.
As for Faldo, while he did have his arrogant and surly days when he was the top dog, I think he has endeared himself to many the last few years. He has definitely mellowed, refined his self-deprecation, and has evolved into a public persona which is genuine and likeable. He's no saint, but I think this is kept alive by Tiger's reluctance to let it go, not any effort by Nick fanning the flames.
Thats called being a competitor, not that Jack, or any of the other greats, werent, but you will have to admit that Tiger takes competiveness to a level of a Bobby Knight, Michael Jordan, Bill Parcels, etc... All these guys know is winning, nothing else matters to them.
Thats called being a competitor, not that Jack, or any of the other greats, werent, but you will have to admit that Tiger takes competiveness to a level of a Bobby Knight, Michael Jordan, Bill Parcels, etc... All these guys know is winning, nothing else matters to them.
You make a good point. After reading BPC's post (which I largely agreed with, BTW) I tried to think of the guys who were the absolute best at their sports and also had a "happy-go-lucky" demeanor. I couldn't come up with many. Jordan - no, Bird - no, Nicklaus - no, Hogan - no, Borg - no, Sampras - no, Montana - no, Jim Brown - no, Bonds - no, Clemens - no, Cobb - no, Ted Williams - no.
Ruth, Mays, Magic & Arnie are the only exceptions that jump out at me.
You make a good point. After reading BPC's post (which I largely agreed with, BTW) I tried to think of the guys who were the absolute best at their sports and also had a "happy-go-lucky" demeanor. I couldn't come up with many. Jordan - no, Bird - no, Nicklaus - no, Hogan - no, Borg - no, Sampras - no, Montana - no, Jim Brown - no, Bonds - no, Clemens - no, Cobb - no, Ted Williams - no.
Ruth, Mays, Magic & Arnie are the only exceptions that jump out at me.
And you can add Bobby Jones to that list of non-happy-go-lucky great athletes. From what I've read, he could be a great gentleman at times (which I heard was after a certain incident that changed his outlook on things), but he also had a temper that makes Tiger's look pretty tame (throwing clubs, cursing...in the 1910s and 1920s, holy cow! ).
July 19th, 2006, 05:14 PM
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