Don't get me wrong, I love the rules as much as the next guy, but having to take stroke AND distance when some jack weed in the next fairway picks up your ball before you get to it, causing you a lost ball penalty, isn't justified.
Don't get me wrong, I love the rules as much as the next guy, but having to take stroke AND distance when some jack weed in the next fairway picks up your ball before you get to it, causing you a lost ball penalty, isn't justified.
LOL!! good point, didn't even think of that!!!
Last edited by mysy : August 9th, 2006 at 02:00 PM.
Leaguegolf Why would it be necessary to create a "Recreational" set of rules when probably 90%+ already play that way anyway?
i agree that the Golf Rules Police don't show up on the second hole and haul you away for changing a rule, but from the sounds of your posts, you will belittle an amateur golfers ability for doing so. from my understanding of your many posts on this site i have come to the conclusion that you are a GOOD golfer, but maybe just maybe you take your skill for granted and forget about the majority of golfers who have trouble breaking a 100,why not give them a break?? it wont effect you or your low scores. i just think "tigeroverjacks" idea is very logical for amateur golfers. but i think you missed my point that when playing in a tournament or for money then the official rules should be followed as it is an "official" match. players of your skill level dont need to worry about this rule change. all this rule change would do is allow the amateur a break on some extra stokes while still following a modified set of rules. and i know the next question is where do you stop adjusting the rules to better suit the amateur? to that question i have NO answer.
I've "belittled" no one, especially a higher handicapped golfer. I also play recreational golf and I run a golf league that has adopted "Local Rules" to help speed play. Many of which you won't find in a USGA Rule Book. I've posted this before but just to refresh your memory..........Play by whatever set of rules you and your group want to make. I just see no need to create "Recreational Rules" for the sole purpose of lowering your scores. If that's what you're after, a creative pencil works just fine.
well again you make the assumption that I am after a way lower my scores, that is not the case, i am simply in agreement with "Tigeroverjack"'s idea. it is very interesting that you run a local golf league with modified rules. however your statement "I've "belittled" no one, especially a higher handicapped golfer" is some what contradicting as you posted "Thanks Petermo. I didn't want to be the one to play the "I can't hit it where I can find it so lets change the rules" card.
The "Local Rules" that I referred to have to do with course conditions and lay-out, not how the game is played. Tigeroverjack suggested that when a player loses a ball he/she just drop a ball in the general vicinity, add a penalty stroke, and play on. Do you need a set of recreational rules to do that? Amateur golfers should pay a lesser penalty for a lost ball? What exactly is the point of that if its not to lower your score?
I personally don't care how you and Tigeroverjack play the game. The whole point of playing is to enjoy yourself. If you think changing the rules will add to your enjoyment then you are entitled to that opinion. I'm of the opinion that the rules are fine as they are. When I'm playing "recreational" golf, the USGA Rules of Golf are the last thing on my mind anyway.
BTW.........My comment to Petermo was intended humor. Hence
the
again you have suggested that i want to change how i play the game, but i never stated that I want to follow these rules!, i simply stated i agree with the idea of a rule change for some amateurs. and i don't remember saying anything about the rules of YOUR golf league beside the fact that it was interesting to know that you run a local golf league, please take no offense to the mention of your golf league. but i do find it hard to take your comment as humor as it seemed to back up your post. but if you said it was humour i will take your word on it.
Originally Posted by leaguegolf
Amateur golfers should pay a lesser penalty for a lost ball? What exactly is the point of that if its not to lower your score?
to improve the speed and enjoyment of the game, that way the player is not force to hold up play and return to the original spot, it would just speed up play and make the round more enjoyable knowing that if you cant find a ball that you honestly thought you could find, then you could take the penality and move on.!!!!
How often do you lose a ball that you "honestly thought you could find? When was the last time someone playing ahead of you came back to the tee, or the spot they last played from? My point there is the current rules aren't forcing anyone to do so at the expense of their enjoyment of the game. If there's any doubt, hit a provisional. Hitting a provisional takes all of 30 seconds and doesn't hold anyone up.
As for the "enjoyment of the game".........If dropping a ball and taking a stroke is more "enjoyable" for you, then do it. The Rules of Golf weren't created to make your golf game less enjoyable.
i am starting to think that we are arguing the same thing from differnet sides , but the losing a ball that i honestly thought i could find, does happen. at least for me, twice this season i have hit a ball that i thought would be simple to find, but because of lush trees, even a ball that bounces a few feet into the trees is very hard to find. now not trying to start a new arguement, but from my experience playing in the rocky mountains there are VERY few courses that have well maintained treelines, and as a result this problem is more common. but the thing is maybe around your area you dont have this problem so it would make it hard for you to see my point. but on many of the courses i have played losing a ball that you honestly thought you could find is more common then you think. and i agree that a person should be able to maximize their enjoyment of the game.
If everybody in the group agrees to play it as a lateral hazard, I see you no problem with this if, of course it's not tournament play. It would certainly keep the pace moving along. As you said tigeroverjack, we're talking about a casual round of golf here so I'm reasonably sure the rules police aren't gonna come lock us up. I actually think it's a good way to go for high handicap golfers who hit balls all over the course. In fact, if I'm playing with a bad golfer, I'll have him do exactly that - play it as a lateral hazard - but I'll also tell him how it should really be played. Something like that just keeps the pace of play moving along. And as I mentioned before, if the whole foursome agrees to it that way, then nobody is getting an unfair advantage and the integrety of the game isn't damaged.
Wow very cool stuff guys im glad this was able to be discussed. I play in two tourneys a year and i always follow the rules of golf in those. (WOW everyone should be impressed huh lol). Anyways i do honestly try to adhere to the golf rules when i play and i guess you can say me and my group and probably most of the people who golf where i golf adhere to our own local rule of dropping outside the heather and taking one stroke. This was just a discussion and a thought i had because i feel pros have the advantage over amateurs. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. By no means did i think a rule change would happen or will happen from this discussion but i strongly believe it should be discussed and possibly adjusted in ways to help the amateur. If a change were to ever come about in certain rules or even a rule if its in the best interest of the game i would support it. Discussion is a good thing and i thank all of you for this wonderful dialogue
Somehow I get the feeling the other 3 guys in your foursome aren't helping you look for your ball very often. Is it fair that golf courses are different and that you can shoot a lower score on an easier course? Player A plays golf on a wide open course with very little water/trees/sand etc. and shoots 80 consistently. Player B (of equal talent) plays a much more difficult course and shoots 90 consistently. Is it fair that Player A can boast to Player B that his scores are always lower?
That's what a handicap is for.
Tigerjack, I just wanted to say Johnny Miller (he talked it about this in his Golf Digest column) is in complete agreeance with you. Don't feel like your alone in this battle. Someday the golf gods will here our cries.
Cobra thanks and im not trying to get greedy for me. I feel the amateur if he were to follow all the rules has a disadvantage than does a pro. Somehow that doesnt make sense to me. Us guys who try to play be the rules but arent as good get hurt more so by the rules. Its just a discussion and thats all i wanted from this.
Some golf leagues treat the woods as a lateral hazard. I think that's fair. The woods at most of the places I play are...well...woods, not stands of trees over a neatly manicured blanket of needles. My survey only includes the last 3 guys I've played with lately, though. As for lost balls in play, I'd be in favor of any change just to equalize the rule. Lost balls by the pros are very rare for many of the reasons mentioned. Some of them frequently hit it as crooked as us. IMO, they have an advantage under this rule because of all the help they have in finding their ball.
I can understand someone saying.."No way you play by the rules and i dont care what excuse you use"....but i can also understand someone saying..."you know the pros are way better than the amateur golfer yet have marshalls,grandstands,crowds and other advantages than does the amateur i wouldnt mind their being some reule to help the amateur out".......i understand both sides i really do but when you hit a ball 2 yards into the heather and cant find it because your 175 away from where it entered then have to take stroke and distance when 99.9 or more % of the time a fan will find the pro ball i think is a bit much. I would be in favor of some very slight changes in the rules of golf to help the amateur.
Guys, on the back of the R&A rule book you'll see the following:-
"Play the ball as it lies
Play the course as you find it
And if you can't do either, do what is fair
But to do what is fair, you need to
know the Rules of Golf"
Golf is an amateur game that now has become a professional sport. To aver that the pro has an advantage over amateurs because someone else can help him find his ball is a large red herring. The pro never (except in 3 of the 4 majors) competes against amateurs and those that are there are as near as dammit to pros anyway. The amateur competes against his peer group either in a tiny group of 3 or 4 in a weekend game or against an entire field if playing in a competition. Either way as long as all players in the peer group play by the same rules on that day it's OK for convenience in competition the rules of golf, as modified by local rules apply.
If the [b]drop where you think you lost it rule were to be applied[b] it is open to abuse since if you don't know where it went from 175yds how will you ever know where it went from 300 yds?
The rules are like traffic lights - they regulate in favour of everyone and it only feels like they were designed so you have to stop at all the red ones!
August 9th, 2006, 01:53 PM
I also play recreational golf and I run a golf league that has adopted "Local Rules" to help speed play. Many of which you won't find in a USGA Rule Book. I've posted this before but just to refresh your memory..........Play by whatever set of rules you and your group want to make. I just see no need to create "Recreational Rules" for the sole purpose of lowering your scores. If that's what you're after, a creative pencil works just fine. 
, but the losing a ball that i honestly thought i could find, does happen. at least for me,
twice this season i have hit a ball that i thought would be simple to find, but because of lush trees, even a ball that bounces a few feet into the trees is very hard to find. now not trying to start a new arguement, but from my experience playing in the rocky mountains there are VERY few courses that have well maintained treelines, and as a result this problem is more common. but the thing is maybe around your area you dont have this problem so it would make it hard for you to see my point. but on many of the courses i have played losing a ball that you honestly thought you could find is more common then you think. and i agree that a person should be able to maximize their enjoyment of the game.
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