Go Back   Golf Rewind > The Clubhouse > Tour Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:23 PM
mr3856a's Avatar
mr3856a mr3856a is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Staatsburg, NY
Posts: 2,593
Send a message via AIM to mr3856a Send a message via Yahoo to mr3856a
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
If it was an easy driving course, why were there drives less than Michelle's drives on the same course in the same tournament.
'Cause they probably weren't hitting driver - or do you really think Jason Gore averages 265 off the tee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
The problem with that is those events were not on the pga tour. lpga tour course setups are set up to support short hitters. That's why the likes of Mi Hyun Kim averaging about 230 yards can win. Very often on an lpga course, the player runs out of fairway at 280 yards.

Driving varies greatly, depending on the course.

Sean O'Hair driving averages:
Sony: 286.5 yards.
Buick: 293.5 yards
AT&T: 273.7 yards.
BellSouth Classic: 301.8 yards.
Agreed and agreed. However...Michelle's 2006 PGA Tour stats:

http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/476953/2006

Driving distance: 161st
Driving accuracy: 191th
Total driving: 199th.

Where does that put her?

What would be dead last in total driving.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/leaders/r/2006/129

There ain't much arguin' that
Reply With Quote
REGISTER and browse with less advertisements! It's FREE!
  #17 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:25 PM
CheeseCalzone's Avatar
CheeseCalzone CheeseCalzone is offline
Golf Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 33
Drive for show...putt for dough (and wins) is the old cliche. Too bad for M. Wie that there isn't a NASCAR scoring bonus for being top driver...lol.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:29 PM
NikeSlingshot06's Avatar
NikeSlingshot06 NikeSlingshot06 is offline
Green Jacket
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
Posts: 1,458
sorry if im being ignorant here, but doesnt the LPGA play on women's tees?, that would give Michelle a decent advantage when being compared to men?
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:38 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ireland, and from a suitcase
Posts: 2,179
One more attempt:

If Sean O'Hair's only event was the AT&T: 273.7 yards, would you declare him as the shortest hitter on tour.
If Sean O'Hair's only event was the BellSouth Classic: 301.8 yards, would you declare him as one of the longest hitters on tour.

The only stat that matters as regards driving is how a player does against their fellow competitors in that tournament.
When Sean O'Hair averaged 273 at the AT&T, do you think he was worrying that Tiger's season average was over 300 yards.

Nope, if he thought about his driving, it would only be in relation to his fellow competitors in that tournament.

When Michelle enters a tournament it doesn't matter to her what the season averages of the other guys are. What matters is how are they driving it at that tournament and how her driving compares.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:38 PM
viper1314's Avatar
viper1314 viper1314 is offline
Green Jacket
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Weston,WV
Posts: 1,066
doesn't matter what tees they play from , distance off the tee is the same if its a 600 yard par 5 or a 500 yard par 5 you still have 300 yards and your 300 yards away on the 600 and 200 away on the 500. Unless I read your quesiton wrong
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:41 PM
viper1314's Avatar
viper1314 viper1314 is offline
Green Jacket
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Weston,WV
Posts: 1,066
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
One more attempt:

If Sean O'Hair's only event was the AT&T: 273.7 yards, would you declare him as the shortest hitter on tour.
If Sean O'Hair's only event was the BellSouth Classic: 301.8 yards, would you declare him as one of the longest hitters on tour.

The only stat that matters as regards driving is how a player does against their fellow competitors in that tournament.
When Sean O'Hair averaged 273 at the AT&T, do you think he was worrying that Tiger's season average was over 300 yards.

Nope, if he thought about his driving, it would only be in relation to his fellow competitors in that tournament.

When Michelle enters a tournament it doesn't matter to her what the season averages of the other guys are. What matters is how are they driving it at that tournament and how her driving compares.


maybe I missed something, but why does it even matter about her driving distance? She can't win on the mens or ladies tour so it doesn't matter what place she is in! I see this compared to say me hititng 300 yards off the tee, ok I can hit 300 but I can't win on a pga event. Of course it doesn't matter to you............see what I am saying
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:42 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ireland, and from a suitcase
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheeseCalzone
Drive for show...putt for dough (and wins) is the old cliche. Too bad for M. Wie that there isn't a NASCAR scoring bonus for being top driver...lol.
Very true. Nathan Green's driving averages at the Sony were less than Michelle's, yet he got 5th place.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ireland, and from a suitcase
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper1314
maybe I missed something, but why does it even matter about her driving distance? She can't win on the mens or ladies tour so it doesn't matter what place she is in! I see this compared to say me hititng 300 yards off the tee, ok I can hit 300 but I can't win on a pga event. Of course it doesn't matter to you............see what I am saying
You are correct that driving distance is not the b all and end all.
The only issue I take is with those who claim she cannot compete on the pga tour due to not being long enough.
Nathan Green hit it shorter than her and got 5th place so it can be done.

It's the other parts of her game that need work for her to be able to compete on the pga tour.
Increasing driving would be an advantage but it's isn't stopping her from competing as so many people claimed.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 03:14 PM
mr3856a's Avatar
mr3856a mr3856a is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Staatsburg, NY
Posts: 2,593
Send a message via AIM to mr3856a Send a message via Yahoo to mr3856a
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
One more attempt:

If Sean O'Hair's only event was the AT&T: 273.7 yards, would you declare him as the shortest hitter on tour.
If Sean O'Hair's only event was the BellSouth Classic: 301.8 yards, would you declare him as one of the longest hitters on tour.

The only stat that matters as regards driving is how a player does against their fellow competitors in that tournament.
When Sean O'Hair averaged 273 at the AT&T, do you think he was worrying that Tiger's season average was over 300 yards.

Nope, if he thought about his driving, it would only be in relation to his fellow competitors in that tournament.

When Michelle enters a tournament it doesn't matter to her what the season averages of the other guys are. What matters is how are they driving it at that tournament and how her driving compares.
It compares dead last:

Michelle's 2006 PGA Tour stats:

http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/476953/2006

Driving distance: 161st
Driving accuracy: 191th
Total driving: 199th.

Where does that put her?

What would be dead last in total driving.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/leaders/r/2006/129
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 03:18 PM
mr3856a's Avatar
mr3856a mr3856a is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Staatsburg, NY
Posts: 2,593
Send a message via AIM to mr3856a Send a message via Yahoo to mr3856a
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
The only issue I take is with those who claim she cannot compete on the pga tour due to not being long enough.
Nathan Green hit it shorter than her and got 5th place so it can be done.

It's the other parts of her game that need work for her to be able to compete on the pga tour.
Increasing driving would be an advantage but it's isn't stopping her from competing as so many people claimed.
Rodney, she would be dead last in total driving on Tour this year. If that ain't "stopping her from competing," what is?

(Oops - I just answered my own question. The answer is all the other statistical categories she would be dead last in: scoring average, GIR percentage, ball striking, scrambling, par 5 performance, 3-putt avoidance... http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/476953/2006)
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:05 PM
TTUfirebird2008 TTUfirebird2008 is offline
Green Jacket
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
Rodney, she would be dead last in total driving on Tour this year. If that ain't "stopping her from competing," what is?

(Oops - I just answered my own question. The answer is all the other statistical categories she would be dead last in: scoring average, GIR percentage, ball striking, scrambling, par 5 performance, 3-putt avoidance... http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/476953/2006)
I actually think her putting is what holds her back both against women and against men. She is worse than Sergio or Vijay, and that's an accomplishment to be honest. I think Tiger is proof that you can lay back off the tee and still be successful (granted, he does have ridiculous ability from 200+ yards out to get it within 30 feet almost every time and typically within 20 feet). Fred Funk and Corey Pavin are probably both shorter hitters than Wei, but they have pretty good driving accuracy, iron play, and short games. Once Michelle improves her putting, I think her scores will go down quite a bit. She's like us (amateurs) in that matter.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:19 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ireland, and from a suitcase
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
Rodney, she would be dead last in total driving on Tour this year. If that ain't "stopping her from competing," what is?

(Oops - I just answered my own question. The answer is all the other statistical categories she would be dead last in: scoring average, GIR percentage, ball striking, scrambling, par 5 performance, 3-putt avoidance... http://www.pgatour.com/players/stats/476953/2006)
By those stats:
- She is the 23rd best putter on the pga tour.
- The 8th best at getting birdies on par 3 holes.
- The 12th best par 3 performer.
- The 14th best par 4 performer.
- The 34th best at approach shots from over 200 yards.
- The 3rd best at converting birdies when she hit greens in regulation.

All those things prove that your method of comparing one tournament stats against season stats does not work.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:27 PM
mr3856a's Avatar
mr3856a mr3856a is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Staatsburg, NY
Posts: 2,593
Send a message via AIM to mr3856a Send a message via Yahoo to mr3856a
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
By those stats:
- She is the 23rd best putter on the pga tour.
Uh, try 20th from the cellar...
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:31 PM
mr3856a's Avatar
mr3856a mr3856a is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Staatsburg, NY
Posts: 2,593
Send a message via AIM to mr3856a Send a message via Yahoo to mr3856a
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodney_c
All those things prove that your method of comparing one tournament stats against season stats does not work.
And don't be disingenuous - I've compared her driving statistics over her entire career, over 1 tournament, over 1 season, etc., etc., etc. It doesn't seem to matter which parameters we set, you always disregard what the statistics say anyway.

And incidentally, it was you who tried to compare stats from one tournament to the entire year in saying that she was "better than 40 players" or whatever it was in driving distance. I merely showed that it was at one tournament, and it was a tournament with hugely inflated driving statistics to boot.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old September 5th, 2006, 04:49 PM
rodney_c rodney_c is offline
Grand Slam
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ireland, and from a suitcase
Posts: 2,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
And incidentally, it was you who tried to compare stats from one tournament to the entire year in saying that she was "better than 40 players" or whatever it was in driving distance.
Are you actually being serious?
Did you not read what was posted at all?
I did not compare her stats in one tournament to the entire year.
I compared her stats in one tournament to the other guys in the same tournament.
She was longer than 40+ guys in THE SONY TOURNAMENT of 2006, where she played with those players in THE SAME TOURNAMENT, using stats FROM THAT TOURNAMENT ONLY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr3856a
I merely showed that it was at one tournament, and it was a tournament with hugely inflated driving statistics to boot.
Lucky for alot of players that there driving distances were inflated so much. Without the huge increase in driving what would the stats have been like for:
104 Ryan Moore 285.25
115 Justin Rose 281.25
118 Arron Oberholser 279.50
126 Jim Furyk 274.00
127 Mike Weir 273.50
128 Peter Lonard 273.00
134 Jason Gore 269.50
140 Charles Howell III 264.50

Lucky for those guys that it was such an easy driving course, or they would have struggled to make it 260 yards even.
Reply With Quote
REGISTER and browse with less advertisements! It's FREE!
Reply
Tags: , , , , ,



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who will Michelle finish ahead of at The Sony ? wazmankg Tour Talk 20 January 15th, 2006 02:23 AM
Driving Distance trudat General Golf Discussion 67 May 9th, 2005 12:52 AM
Sony Open victory Tour Talk 70 January 18th, 2005 10:40 PM
Wie and the 2005 Sony Open leaguegolf Tour Talk 60 January 15th, 2005 08:39 AM
Michelle Wie to play the 2005 Sony Open victory Tour Talk 37 October 22nd, 2004 12:59 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:06 AM.