Lee Westwood is an absolute legend - the Ryder Cup is clearly his metier. If Monty decides he's had enough, Europe have Sergio and Westwood to take his place as the "captain" on the course.
I like Faldo's comment - he'd take those 12 guys to Valhalla right now.
It will not be a popular or comfortable concept in the US, but there are at least another six European players who could have been on that team and not weakened it a jot. Bjorn, Petterrson, Poulter, Rose, Edford etc. would not have been out of place and there is yet another wave coming behind, with the likes of Simon Dyson, Castano and Molinari getting better very fast. To go further, I think an entire "second" European team would have given it a good go this time against that US side.
By contrast the Americans are wondering how a different selection system would have helped, but who realistically could they have brought in? OK, you could argue that Davis Love would have been better than Wetterich but who else is out there - maybe Ben Curtis, but Dean Wilson or Arron Obelholser? Are they any better than Taylor or Henry?
For all the talk that the Nationwide Tour is stronger than the European Tour (that looks pretty funny this morning), I think there is a lot of "good" players making a comfortable living in the US, but rarely in contention as so may of the top places are permamently occupied by the likes of Goosen, Singh, Scott etc. as well as Europeans.
Maybe another factor this time was that three of the US team had to get passports so they could travel. That says a lot.
One last insight; Tiger was interviewed on Irish radio afterwards and was asked about the next one in 2 years time. He said of course that the US players would be up for it but when Valhalla was mentioned, Tiger's answer was "Is that where it is?" That says a lot too.
Tiger was interviewed on Irish radio afterwards and was asked about the next one in 2 years time. He said of course that the US players would be up for it but when Valhalla was mentioned, Tiger's answer was "Is that where it is?" That says a lot too.
I dont believe for a second that Tiger hadnt heard or didnt know where the next Ryder Cup was taking place - this is typical of the way he seems to try to undermine the value of the Ryder cup, although his attitude to it is already evident from his demeanour every 2 years...
^ Id have to have a link or hear that broadcast before id go saying he undermines the Ryder Cup. If he undermined it he wouldnt take players to dinner, make new arrangements to go to Ireland with the WHOLE team, or get mad when he loses. You have bought into a media myth that he doesnt care about the ryder Cup because he has a losing record. Well if Jack Nicklaus and Arnie played against these guys they may lose as well just like Tiger and Phil. Jack and Arnie played against the Great Britain and Ireland teams that were so bad we had to include Europe. In fact in 1981 was Jack's only time he played against Europe and thats it. No wonder his stats and many past legends stats are better...they played nobodies and smoked them 24 straight times. My real point is TIGER does care about this event thus his 3-2 record. Sure it could have been better but he tried hard and they all got their you know whats kicked. Europe is that good. But to say Tiger undermines the Ryder Cup is buying into a myth created by a few media of which its beginning to dispell. Its bad when Tiger and Lehman have to defend him because hes not superman in the Ryder Cup. Tiger is one of the best golfers ever but he cannot be expected to win everything he shows up at. The game of golf if you hadnt noticed is hard and Europe is better than good. Tiger shows up to win and if he didnt care their would be no dinners with rookies,no trips overseas with the team and he would go off and practice by himself or quite frankly maybe he wouldnt play. He knows the Ryder Cup is at Valhalla and i challenge anyone to come up with that link or article or broadcast where it says "Is that where it is"?........and oh by the way Bjorn was man enough to apologise and in my book all was forgiven for his quick hasty response
Last edited by tigeroverjack : September 25th, 2006 at 03:35 PM.
i challenge anyone to come up with that link or article or broadcast where it says "Is that where it is"?........and oh by the way Bjorn was man enough to apologise and in my book all was forgiven for his quick hasty response[/quote]
Well I heard it myself (I was on a shuttle bus back to the car park and listening to RTE radio; it was at about 5.45 local time and was commented on afterwards. I'll see if I can get hold of it from the RTE website.). Maybe he didn't know about Valhalla, or maybe he wanted to give the impression he didn't. Either way it sends a strange message.
I don't think Tiger is more culpable than anyone else in terms of performance and his 3-2 record is better than most. However he can thank Furyk for the wins on Friday and Saturday.
There are other issues around the US team that don't help. For example, the US team lining up and being introduced in ranking order is about as anti-team spirit a move as I can think of.
Tomas is eating his humble pie at the moment. He can not talk to anyone. May be he will come out in 2012 and put himself forward for the captaincy of the Ryder cup:)
When Tiger loses a TEAM match it's his fault and when he wins a TEAM match his partner is responsible? And you talk about the "anti-team" spirit of the Americans. Your comment is about as anti-team as it gets.
I enjoyed your reports from the K Club and I appreciate the loyalty to your team but knocking Americans for the order in which they were introduced is contrived. Coupled with your comments on the Tiger/Furyk team it's easy to see the connection between your "anti-team" introduction claim and your dis-like of Tiger.
For the record........It's commonplace for the top stars in any American sporting event to be introduced first. The Ryder Cup team was no exception.
Goodness but we are prickly where Tiger is concerned. Its a matter of record who contributed the wins and halves on each hole in the fourballs and who made the shots in foursomes. If you weren't watching at the time, look it up - its all on the Ryder Cup 2006 web-site.
You can line the US team up anyway you want, but if you can't see the significance of it in a team context, then you will probably still be scratching your head about why the team doesn't gel in 2 years time.
Goodness but we are prickly where Tiger is concerned. Its a matter of record who contributed the wins and halves on each hole in the fourballs and who made the shots in foursomes. If you weren't watching at the time, look it up - its all on the Ryder Cup 2006 web-site.
You can line the US team up anyway you want, but if you can't see the significance of it in a team context, then you will probably still be scratching your head about why the team doesn't gel in 2 years time.
the team doesn't gel because it just doesnt gel (call it the players fault or America's system), it has nothing to do with the order in which they were introduced, Lehman didn't seem to treat anyone different, be it the world number 1 or the Rookies. order of introductions etc... has nothing to do with them losing.
so if it went Tiger, JJ, Phil, Zach, Di marco, Brett and so on in order of appearance and introduction, would that have helped the team Gel any better?.
they all knew eachother weeks before the Ryder Cup and even played together and had a meal in Ireland.
Tomas is eating his humble pie at the moment. He can not talk to anyone. May be he will come out in 2012 and put himself forward for the captaincy of the Ryder cup:)
Thomas isn't eating anything at the moment, i agree with him and Woosie should have spoken to the other players in the mix for the team (this was his argument, he didnt say that he should have been picked instead of anyone else or anything).
Thomas isn't eating anything at the moment, i agree with him and Woosie should have spoken to the other players in the mix for the team (this was his argument, he didnt say that he should have been picked instead of anyone else or anything).
The issue was not whether Woosie spoke to the players. He said that Woos was pathetic and some other nasty stuff a couple of weeks before the RC started. This could have unsettled the team.
I also happen to agree that Thomas played the better golf during the year but the system gives the captain the right to choose anybody he likes who in his opnion will help team, and not just the no 11 and 12 in the ranking.
The reason he apologised was because the PGA of Europe came down on him like a ton of bricks and not because he was really sorry.
Well the point of a team event is that you rely on and use each other. That comes more naturally when you are seen and see each other as equals. Having the team seated and introduced with the "lowest" ranking as far as possible from the "highest" sends entirely the wrong signals, but if you can't see that, I can't help you.
My comment on Tiger's contribution was in the context of his apparent dis-interest in the next RC, as evidenced by his claim that he didn't know where it will be held. And I repeat that his 3 from 5 return was in large part thanks to Furyk's play in the 2 wins they shared. Furyk also carried Tiger for a lot of the 2 matches they lost. That's not an opinion - look at the scores.
September 25th, 2006, 04:08 AM
And you talk about the "anti-team" spirit of the Americans. Your comment is about as anti-team as it gets. 
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