Should also be posted at all restraunts and other places where men fail to observe basic etiquette and leave their baseball caps on during meals etc. Caps and hats should be reomoved indoors, period. (except for religious garments).
Although this might be true, I know lots of nice and curteous people who don't observe it. I think it's a slowly fading tradition. In all reality, who could be so bold as to take offense if someone eats with their hat on? Maybe in 1945, but people are of a different mentality these days.
Personally, (take into consideration that I was born in 1980) I think it is silly for someone to get offended if I wear a ball cap in a restaraunt. I do it all the time and think nothing of it, it is my head, afterall. That is part of the problem, people are too easily offended, things like this, who shakes hands first and when not to wear a hat do not make a whole lot of sense to me, just trivial details. I think it is good sportsmanship to shake hands and pat an opponent on the back after a round, or competition. It would be a problem if they did not shake hands. I believe in being polite and respectful. I call my boss and people who are my senior Mam and Sir. I love my parents, love God, love and take care of my wife and child. So what if I wear a ball cap inside, it does not make me disrespectful. Times are changing, young people get tired of "rules" even good, well behaved young people dont always like to follow tradition.
It would be a problem if they did not shake hands.
You have set a personal standard that "shaking hands" is a sign of respect. Other people have set their standards to include taking off a hat indoors as a sign of respect. It's doubtful that we'll ever all agree on questions of etiquette.
Let me clarify, then. If they did not exchange some sort of sportsmanship that would be wrong. Shaking hands is a personal exchange between two individuals. If I don't take my hat off should I be concerned that there are some strangers looking at me in disgust? In the big picture it really is not that important. I dont go out of my way to offend anyone on purpose. But there are some things that are generational and may never be agreed upon. So I tip my hat to all of you who would require that and shake hands when I should with the rest of you.
So what if I wear a ball cap inside, it does not make me disrespectful.
You sound like you might be folically challenged, like myself...didn't want people seeing my shiny pumpkin. In the end I opted to go with what I was taught as a young man...I always remove my hat when I sit down to eat.
Shade
p.s. No one noticed. Reminds me of an old saying...You wouldn't worry about what other people thought of you if you realized how seldom they did.
Personally, (take into consideration that I was born in 1980) I think it is silly for someone to get offended if I wear a ball cap in a restaraunt. I do it all the time and think nothing of it, it is my head, afterall. That is part of the problem, people are too easily offended, things like this, who shakes hands first and when not to wear a hat do not make a whole lot of sense to me, just trivial details. I think it is good sportsmanship to shake hands and pat an opponent on the back after a round, or competition. It would be a problem if they did not shake hands. I believe in being polite and respectful. I call my boss and people who are my senior Mam and Sir. I love my parents, love God, love and take care of my wife and child. So what if I wear a ball cap inside, it does not make me disrespectful. Times are changing, young people get tired of "rules" even good, well behaved young people dont always like to follow tradition.
On the basis of this logic, it follows that when you get tired of "rules" that you will exercise your free will and not count all strokes, concede your own putts and otherwise play the game as it suits you but not according to "rules". Polite society has formed certain correct behaviors that are universally acknowledged by educated refined people and provide a basis for social intercourse. Other people do as they wish.
Nuff said of course. It just hit me when this subject opened up. We agree to disagree on proper social behavior but I bet we play golf from the same rule book. Life would be simpler and a lot less tense if we alll played by the same rules, eh?
On the basis of this logic, it follows that when you get tired of "rules" that you will exercise your free will and not count all strokes, concede your own putts and otherwise play the game as it suits you but not according to "rules". Polite society has formed certain correct behaviors that are universally acknowledged by educated refined people and provide a basis for social intercourse. Other people do as they wish.
Nuff said of course. It just hit me when this subject opened up. We agree to disagree on proper social behavior but I bet we play golf from the same rule book. Life would be simpler and a lot less tense if we alll played by the same rules, eh?
end of discourse. carry on!
You got to be kidding me....If you do not remove your hat you are uneducated, unrefined, and a cheater. For the record, I do not take this so seriously as to be upset, not that I think any of you should be concerned, but just for the record. Life would be simpler if the standards people used to judge somone's character, education, and refinement were a little more applicable to the characteristics they were judging. For instance, I work hard, respect my parents, have quite a bit of education, take care of my family, am socially involved and responsible and even count all my strokes on the golf course. Yet, because I eat with my hat on I am disrespectful. Again for the record, I am just carrying on the conversation, not upset, not offended and neither should any of you be by what I am saying. (I still wear my hat out when I feel like it though)
I think it would be interesting to see the ages of posters in this thread. Just to see if that is what divides our opinions. Even if it seems as though I am the Lone Ranger here. I am 27
Last edited by dblain : September 18th, 2007 at 02:08 PM.
I am 40, and I am taking off my hat to write this post
When I started playing golf as a kid, I was lucky enough to be taught etiquette BEFORE I ever was allowed to set foot on a golf course. It was the greatest thing that has every happened to me. I come from a blue collar family, and do not consider myself highly educated or refined. However, I have been at some of the most exclusive private clubs in the northeast, and can hold my own in the etiquette dept. Things like that get you invited again!
The last few posts in this thread reminded me of a Sopranos episode, where Tony is having dinner in Artie's restaurant, and there is a guy eating dinner with his girlfriend, and he is wearing a baseball cap. Tony went over to him, and "persuaded" him into taking it off. It was very funny!
On the basis of this logic, it follows that when you get tired of "rules" that you will exercise your free will and not count all strokes, concede your own putts and otherwise play the game as it suits you but not according to "rules". Polite society has formed certain correct behaviors that are universally acknowledged by educated refined people and provide a basis for social intercourse. Other people do as they wish.
Nuff said of course. It just hit me when this subject opened up. We agree to disagree on proper social behavior but I bet we play golf from the same rule book. Life would be simpler and a lot less tense if we alll played by the same rules, eh?
end of discourse. carry on!
This is the work of a closed-minded and manipulative individual. The comparason between someone who ignores old customs and someone who cheats at competition is absurd.
Although this might be true, I know lots of nice and curteous people who don't observe it. I think it's a slowly fading tradition. In all reality, who could be so bold as to take offense if someone eats with their hat on? Maybe in 1945, but people are of a different mentality these days.
Let me quote myself here to clarify what side of the arguement I am on.
I don't think I've heard anyone ask anyone to take their hat off at the dinner table or in a restaurant since my great grandmother was alive. If someone takes their hat off as a sign of respect (respect for what, I am not sure), then that's fine by me. There are a million better ways to show someone respect in my opinion. Be nice to them, buy them a drink, pay them a compliment, hold the door for them, address them as sir or ma'am, etc...
Thanks for the outstanding piece of research and advice. Should also be posted at all restraunts and other places where men fail to observe basic etiquette and leave their baseball caps on during meals etc. Caps and hats should be reomoved indoors, period. (except for religious garments).
I would disagree with that. People should not care what I have on top of my head while I am indoor, or eating. It's my business what I wear. To me asking me to take off my hat is like asking me to wear a different shirt color.
On the other hand, shaking hand out of turn is like speaking out of turn in a company meeting, if your boss says something, you keep your opinion to yourself and tell him out of the meeting. Secondly, this involves other people, such as the other player and the caddie's player. It's like saying, I am in charge here, while he's clearly there only because of the player.
There are a book of rules, plainly stated and written, in the game of golf. Society does not have rules, there is culture and perhaps standards. Society does not have a universal standard, it is regional. If you were in India and did some PDA action you would be criminally tried! People do things differently everywhere...and it's okay to do what you are going to do with your one self...but to judge other people by your own standards only means that you should be willing to be judged by other people's standards as well.
You make an assumption that only educated and refined people employ these universally accepted, acknowledged behaviors and those who do not are not so. This is a tricky basis for separation of two different broad catagories. First off, what makes someone "refined"? Their knowledge of fine win and cigars? Cars? Stock Market? Clothes? What makes someone educated? Also, what's with this "universally acknowledged" junk...show me the universally acknowledged poll? If what you mean is that those who follow all of these societal standards (and they mean that much to them) also agree that only those who follow such standards are then refined and education then it seems to me that those same individuals are actually just full of themselves.
IMHO, not trying to be offensive, JMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by divotdog
On the basis of this logic, it follows that when you get tired of "rules" that you will exercise your free will and not count all strokes, concede your own putts and otherwise play the game as it suits you but not according to "rules". Polite society has formed certain correct behaviors that are universally acknowledged by educated refined people and provide a basis for social intercourse. Other people do as they wish.
Nuff said of course. It just hit me when this subject opened up. We agree to disagree on proper social behavior but I bet we play golf from the same rule book. Life would be simpler and a lot less tense if we alll played by the same rules, eh?
IMO, It's a sign of respect if the other person thinks it should be done and you abide by their viewpoint whether you agree with it or not. I think this holds true in almost every situation. I call elderly people ma'am and sir because in my experience they were brought up with it and they think it is socially correct. Therefore if I want to show them respect then I will address them by it.
I'll take my hat off at the table around those who think it should be done if I want to show respect. I personally could care less -- so you're not offending me by leaving it on and you're not showing me respect by taking it off. I understand if you do take it off that you may think that I care, I may tell you otherwise and thus you can leave it on in the future. The same goes true with saying "bless you" when someone sneezes, standing up when a woman stands, opening car doors and countless other little traditions that have come and gone through the years.
The thing is this all comes down to understanding your audience and conforming your behavior to their set of rules. Some will say you should never sacrifice your own views and comforts for the benefit of others but I won't even go there because that viewpoint usually gets flamed to no end.
September 18th, 2007, 06:28 AM
Shade
Linear Mode
Similar Threads
