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Old March 5th, 2008, 01:37 PM
QuadrupleEagle QuadrupleEagle is offline
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Top Asian Pros

Was looking at the Women's world golf rankings, and noticed something very interesting.

The top 50 includes 15 Korean players and 9 Japanese players. Nearly half of the top female golfers in the world are either Korean or Japanese. Also, there are only 6 European women in the top 50, and all are from either Scandinavia or Great Britain. This really seems unusual to me, because in the men's rankings, there is only 1 Japanese player and 1 Korean player in the top 50.

Is there something magical about Korean and Japanese women that makes them great golfers? I'm at a loss to think of anything to explain this. South Korea only has a population of about 50 million, yet nearly one third of the top female golfers come from there. Absolutely amazing.

I have thought of one contributing factor. There is only one top women's professional tour that I have been able to find on the net ... the LPGA. But there are several men's tours, including the asian tour. Any woman wanting to make a career in golf has to play in the most competitive tour. But Asian men can play in the Asian tour and stay close to home. The Asian tour doesn't get many points in the WGR, so it is very difficult for anyone playing that tour primarily to get in the top 50. In fact, the only one is world #32 Toru Taniguchi, who in the last year has played in only 4 PGA events, 2 of them majors, the US Open and the PGA. Now Toru has done exceptionally well in the last year, winning 3 tournaments, placing second 3 times, and a total of 10 top tens.

Perhaps the golf is better on the Asian tour than the WGR give credit, and if the top Asian men were to play on the PGA tour full time, we would see as many Asian men as American men in the top 50. Certainly it is difficult to play your best game if you only fly half way around the world for a major a couple times a year.

Look at Jumbo Ozaki. Born in 1947, he won 94 golf tournaments on the Japan tour, and 1 in New Zealand. I read that he often would shoot in the mid 60s the first round of a PGA tour major, but never ended up challenging for a title come Sunday. Perhaps he was as good as Nicklaus, but had difficulty because he wasn't used to the pressure of being a leader in a PGA event. Who knows how he would have done if he had played full time on the PGA tour. And Jumbo last won in 2002, at the age of 55. That's pretty incredible.

I was just thinking ... in order to get a true idea of the strength of the Asian and Japan tours, perhaps there should be a fifth major, and instead of it being the Player's, make it the Japan Open, with maybe 10 guaranteed spots for Asian and Japan tour players. Then we could get an idea of just how the top Asian players stack up against the other top players in the world without the jet lag.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 01:41 PM
QuadrupleEagle QuadrupleEagle is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

One more thing ... one would expect the top Japanese golfers to be just as good as the top American golfers. It's simply statistically unlikely that there would be a lot more great American golfers than Japanese because the populations are similar, and if anything, golf is more popular in Japan than in America. I can't think of any reason that Americans should be inately more talented in golf than Japanese. And the LPGA tour shows that this isn't the case.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 01:48 PM
Golfisa4letterword Golfisa4letterword is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

The Womens Japenese tour is considered the best after the LPGA.

The Korean girls with talent are given top-notch instruction at an early age, with the family sacraficing all to ensure the prodigy gets everything they need. Its the families ticket out of the middle /lower class. Golf is very,very expensive in Korea.

North Korea is just becoming a modern country, but they still have the 3rd world drive to succeed. I would expect more pro- female golfers from China and India to emerge in the next 10-20 years.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 02:03 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleEagle View Post
I can't think of any reason that Americans should be inately more talented in golf than Japanese.
Americans are taller, on average, than Japanese by 2". I think being 2" taller is an advantage, especially on the men's tour. There are only a few PGA Tour players who I think of as short, and plenty of tall players.

Also, I would guess that golf is more accessible in the US than it is in Japan.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Golfisa4letterword Golfisa4letterword is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

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Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
Americans are taller, on average, than Japanese by 2". I think being 2" taller is an advantage, especially on the men's tour. There are only a few PGA Tour players who I think of as short, and plenty of tall players.

Also, I would guess that golf is more accessible in the US than it is in Japan.
This is true, with the modern equipment the slighter players are catching up.

Note: There is an article in a recent "golf World" that highlights Jarin Todd of the local state school Sonoma State. He is 5'6" and weighs 150 lbs. He hits the ball 300 yds and is an all-american.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:22 PM
QuadrupleEagle QuadrupleEagle is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

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Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
Americans are taller, on average, than Japanese by 2". I think being 2" taller is an advantage, especially on the men's tour. There are only a few PGA Tour players who I think of as short, and plenty of tall players.

Also, I would guess that golf is more accessible in the US than it is in Japan.
A little extra height can be an advantage, but only to a certain extent ... a world class golfer much over 6' is somewhat rare. Of course it gives you more leverage, but control becomes more difficult. This might have a small effect, but there have been plenty of quite good golfers that aren't very tall. I don't think this is a primary factor in explaining why there are only 2 asian golfers in the top 50.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:38 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadrupleEagle View Post
A little extra height can be an advantage, but only to a certain extent ... a world class golfer much over 6' is somewhat rare. Of course it gives you more leverage, but control becomes more difficult. This might have a small effect, but there have been plenty of quite good golfers that aren't very tall. I don't think this is a primary factor in explaining why there are only 2 asian golfers in the top 50.
I do not know whether or not it is the primary factor, but I read that the average height on the PGA Tour is 5'11", which is gigantic by 'Japanese standards'. (Could 5'11" be the optimum height you hint at in your first sentence? )

Here are the heights of the first ten PGA Tour Players I found stats on. They are 1-11 when sorting the current PGATour Players alphabetically. (1 player didn't have stats posted):

6'2"
5'10"
6'1"
6'1"
6'2"
6'1"
5'9"
6'1"
5'9"
6'2"

These guys are tall! Not basketball tall, but tall nonetheless.

I have heard that the equipment companies sell different equipment in Japan, in part because of the differences in anatomy, which can make shopping there for a good setup a challenge for a tall Westerner. Pehaps bump-n-run (a regular Japan-bound traveller and a tall guy himself - I believe) can fill us in on that.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:51 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

A clubmaker once told me the reason I liked Mizuno irons so much was probably because that their "standard" was 1 degree flatter than US clubmakers "standard", and I likely needed clubs with that lie angle.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 10:40 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

[quote=straightshooter;400999]Americans are taller, on average, than Japanese by 2". I think being 2" taller is an advantage, especially on the men's tour. There are only a few PGA Tour players who I think of as short, and plenty of tall players.



Ben Hogan was 5'7", 140 Lbs.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 10:52 AM
QuadrupleEagle QuadrupleEagle is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

Also, Japanese women have the same average height difference from American women as the men do ... 2".

I think the problem is the WGR weightings, and that the Japan and Asian tours are probably stronger than the weightings suggest.

PGA and European tour events give a minimum of 24 points to first place, with 56 for the BMW, 80 for the Players, and 100 for the majors. Asian Tour events give a minimum of 14 points, the same as the Nationwide tour, and the Japan Tour gives a minimum of 16 points to first. In addition, PGA events always give points down to at least 27th place. The Asian Tour only to 17th place, and Japan Tour only to 19th place. This makes it very difficult for an Asian Tour or Japan Tour player to get a high ranking. For the Asian Tour player, just as difficult as for a Nationwide Tour player, and for the Japan Tour player, only slightly less difficult.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 11:07 AM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

Time for some trivia:

It only a few years ago that a Japan Tour Player emerged, won twice on the PGA Tour (including 1 major) and took PGA Rookie of the Year honors!

Remember who?
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Old March 6th, 2008, 02:29 PM
Golfisa4letterword Golfisa4letterword is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightshooter View Post
Time for some trivia:

It only a few years ago that a Japan Tour Player emerged, won twice on the PGA Tour (including 1 major) and took PGA Rookie of the Year honors!

Remember who?
I'm sure it was a senior tour player. Aoki?
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Old March 6th, 2008, 03:57 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

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I'm sure it was a senior tour player. Aoki?
No. This was a recent event: Less than 5 years ago!
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Old March 6th, 2008, 04:20 PM
QuadrupleEagle QuadrupleEagle is offline
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Re: Top Asian Pros

But that was an American. The Japan Tour has long been an option to the Nationwide/Nike/Hogan Tour for golfers without a PGA tour card. Good trivia question though.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 04:53 PM
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Re: Top Asian Pros

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Originally Posted by QuadrupleEagle View Post
But that was an American. The Japan Tour has long been an option to the Nationwide/Nike/Hogan Tour for golfers without a PGA tour card. Good trivia question though.
He is American indeed: Todd Hamilton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. He may not be 'Asian' but he did play in Japan for quite a while, when he couldn't get onto the PGA Tour. I am convinced that this might provide some small clue towards solving this puzzle.
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