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This has baffled me for some time now.

And before you say anything i'm not having a go at non-euro players.

But why are so many US players dominating most tournaments?

What (in your opinion) could be done to improve the standard of euro golf.

I'd be interested to hear from US folks also.

Good question. Wonder what the numbers of US and Euro players are for tournaments on each side of the pond. You'd think the Euro players (Monty at Troon) would dominate The Open, and others since they play that kind of course and conditions more frequently than the US players.

Casey...Garcia...Westwood...Monty...Clarke...Poult er to name but a few never really seem to take the game by the scruff of the neck towards the final round or two.

Are we just not tough enough or is our desire to win not strong enough (i hope not though!!!).

Kinda feel let down more often than not. :(

And I'd like to know why the European players seem to be dominating the Ryder Cup?

What a mystery!

I hate to fall back on generalizations, but Americans are well known to be the world's most productive workers, with the fewest vacation days of all the industrialized nations. Perhaps that work ethic, coupled with the American obsession with individualism, our high standard of living, and worship of all things athletic and expensive, explains why our golfers are so physically gifted, ambitious, and individually successful. It might also explain why US golfers don't do well in situations that call for teamwork. American golfers just don't grow up playing team-type competitions, like foursomes or four-ball. Nearly every competition is medal play or match play, the area in which the American team usually does well during the Ryder Cup.

I think that European players are doing just fine and that it's just a matter of time before they start winning major championships again. Maybe if European golfers didn't have to pay so much tax on their winnings and were able to keep more of it, they'd have more desire?

There's a theory, and one that I have to admit I haven't really thought too much about. If someone has a better one, I'm ready to listen.

Wish i was that confident!

That's a good point you make there valeogut - surely everybody strives as hard as they can if the desire for glory is there.

The European Tour, although strong at the top, is in a state of decline. The big names continue to dominate the Order Of Merit, but after the top 20 or so, who do you have? The best competition, and the most money, is right here in the United States. The Nationwide Tour, and the talent from top to bottom, is fast becoming the #2 tour in the world. If you want to improve your skills you must play against the best, and right now more and more of the best young players are foregoing the European Tour to play here in America. Can you blame them?

No i can't blame them - with that amount of money involved in the US tour i would do the same!

We need more youngsters taking up the game as we only have drips and drabs coming though which isn't really encouraging is it. :(

If you rephrase that to European "teams" instead of "players" I think we might have an answer to your mystery. History shows that American Ryder Cup players have dominated singles play but are dreadful in fourball and foursomes (the team competitions). I, for one, always root for a close finish in the Ryder Cup. I'm never disappointed when some no name European player waxes one of our "Big Guns" in a pivotal match. Before you think I'm not patriotic, I do want the US team to win, but having to come from way behind on the final day is getting real old!

BTW The 2004 Ryder Cup (Oakland Hills) is only 10 miles from my home. I've got some "connections" with a couple of grounds crew guys that may get me in for Friday's matches but the biggest concern here (that you probably haven't heard much about) is security. I've got my fingers crossed!

A recent article in GolfWorld discussed the declining interest in golf among the young people in Scotland, and the author seemed to blame the lack of interest--at least in part--on the stodgy attitudes of the older members of Scotland's clubs, who insist on the wearing of coats and ties in the clubhouse, among other traditional practices.

Leaguegolf: I can understand the security issue - if you get in to see some action then that will be awesome! - Good Luck!

Valeogut: I kind of agree although that really only applies to 'big old' golf clubs, where the average wage is probably something ridiculous.

But to add what you said i think for kids, then the cost of getting started is a huge put off. Compared to football (soccer) where all you need is a football and jumpers for goalposts.

Out of curiosity though, what are golf clubs like in the USA? - I presume no 'snooty' attitude like some here?

I'll rephrase that to "teams."

Wow, I hope that you are able to attend--if you can be cleared through security.

Can you remember as a kid being able to sneak into events like that? A kid today has to worry about being arrested for terrorism for doing something like that now. We can only hope that our homeland security forces are able to secure the site so that nothing but great golf occurs.

The competition in the Nationwide Tour is tremendous. By the time these guys earn their card by finishing top 15 or getting a battlefied promotion (3 wins in a season) they are really pretty much primed for PGA play...that hasn't always been the case...this tour has matured since it was called the Hogan Tour. Europe has no Nationwide Tour equivalent. Also I think Tiger has inspired more young Americans than young Europeans to take up the game early.

Europeans play much more match and team play than Americans...with the exception of El Tigre, the best match players are found on the European Tour, imo.

For the life of me I have no answer as to why Europeans don't dominate more on links-style courses.

Shade

I read the article in Golfworld as well and it's fairly obvious the Scots are simply not promoting Jr. golf. While there are some snooty private clubs here in the states, my experience is that many private courses have family memberships available, even for some of the most exclusive courses and frequently hold Jr tournaments for nonmembers to promote the game. Some private clubs near me also hold high school matches on their course without any regards to the membership status of anyone on the golf team. For example, I believe even Oakland Hills holds high school matches on their North Course, which may not have the reputation of the South course (where the Ryder Cup will be held), it's still a very fine course by any definition. My question after reading that article is what the percentage of public courses are relative to all courses in the UK? I got the impression that the only way to play as a Jr. in Scotland was to belong to a private club, which I'm sure is not the case. Maybe they need to build more public courses, but that takes investment capital; for golf courses, it also requires a long time horizon to recoup the intial investment in the course and ties up capital for years. Throw in the fact that there is an aging population in Scotland, the investment dollars (along with higher taxes in the UK) will be hard to come by for building public golf courses there in Scotland.

Public courses, which are far more prevelant relative to private courses in the States, are constantly holding Jr tournaments. Despite these efforts in the States to promote Jr golf, the number of golfers have held steady at about 25 million since 1990. We have built far more courses in that time frame than the number of golfers that can financially support these clubs, private or public. In Michigan there will be more and more courses closing in the next 2-4 years, including some private ones. Scotland may be facing a declining golf population, and perhaps they're falling at a faster rate than here, but they are not alone. If there are barriers to play in any way shape or form, either for the golfing population or the investment needed in building courses (high green fees, 'snooty attitudes', high tax rates, high initial up front capital, etc.), the future of golf will go by the way of tennis - which peaked out in the 70's and has not recovered. Fewer golfers plus fewer golf courses -that's where I think we are headed and it's not isolated in Scotland, despite the best efforts we have tried here across the pond.

The one thing that I see that could reverse this trend is to build courses that are cheaper to build and cheaper to play. It seems like every course built in a 100 mile radius to me (and there have been at least 20 courses built in this radius the last ten years) are all "championship" courses - all are expensive and do nothing for encouraging beggining golfers to continue playing. They're all way too hard and expensive for the vast majority of the golfers out there. Muni courses, which are usually cheaper to play, are seemingly one of the few alternatives to these Taj Mahal type courses; maybe that will be where we could see growth.

greenguy, you made some excellent points there! :)

As far as what is the percentage of public courses relative to all courses are here i couldn't say but i will try and find out.

Golf (he in the UK at least) really has to try and shake off the snooty reputation of blokes sitting in the clubhouse puffing away on big fat cigars and sipping brandy after a round.

To be honest i thought the same thing when i started in the game years ago but if you don't try then you don't know.

A lot of promotion needs to be done over here to get everyone who's even the slightest bit interested in the game to get down to their local municipal club and "have a go". Some open days would be nice and if i'm right then a golf magazine over here does a "2 fore 1" offer when two people can play for the price of one.

Heck even loaning clubs from the course and a round costs about £10-£20 here i think.

I agree that to get a high number of players who can play at the highest levels of the game, you need to have a larger pool of younger players. I would say a large number of junior golfers in the U.S. would have a big effect on this and course accessibility could be a large reason for this.