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  #31 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2004, 02:30 PM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.billZ
Tiger plays the same number of PGA Tour events as the guys that got the letters. Why has Tiger not gotten one? Preferrential treatment. Until this kind of stuff stops I will continue to denegrade the situation surround this ONE person. One person does not the tour make.
Anyway I believe it's a free country. YOu have the right to blindly follow and I have the right to criticize obvious inequalitiies in policy.

Tiger isn't breaking the rules, and hasn't broken any current PGA Tour Rules (ok, maybe the one about swearing ). I don't see Tiger receiving any "preferential treatment" in this matter. Els does play the minimum amount of PGA Tour events to maintain his membership and wants to play more events worldwide. Events that conflict with PGA Tour dates.

The current system is flawed, and will probably be altered sometime soon, but what does Tiger have to do with this, and how is he receiving preferential treatment?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2004, 02:32 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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League, you are now officially the 1337est of the Golf Rewind posters...

Not that I know what it really means...I've always assumed that meant cool so let's go with that one...
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2004, 02:38 PM
golfgeek golfgeek is offline
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1337 = "leet" which is short for "elite." More of that insidious "h4x0r-" (hacker)-speak that seems to plague kids these days. Kids that type "c u l8r" and whatnot on instant messages, text messages, chat rooms, email, etc.
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Old October 25th, 2004, 08:10 PM
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Donnakay Donnakay is offline
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Interesting article on the Ernie situation!

MELL: Rift with Els spells trouble for PGA Tour
Published October 24, 2004

The PGA Tour is taking a risk in trying to force Ernie Els to play more in the United States, but the motivation in that bid has some of its roots in South Florida.

When Els decided last year not to defend his title at the Ford Championship at Doral, it couldn't have thrilled PGA Tour officials. They delivered the Ford Motor Co. as the new title sponsor to the South Florida Golf Foundation that year. They did so in the wake of that glorious duel Els won against Tiger Woods on the Blue Monster in 2002, the final year Genuity was title sponsor. With Ford newly aboard at Doral and optimism high in 2003, Els took the lucrative guaranteed appearance fee offered by the Dubai Desert Classic and did not defend his title in Miami.

Woods chose Dubai's money that year, too, but terrorist concerns kept him from going. Still, he didn't play Doral.

Els took the money to play Dubai again this year.

South Florida is still eagerly waiting for Els to return, but the risk the PGA Tour is taking doesn't assure we'll see any more of him. In fact, if the tour doesn't smooth over this rift, there's a possibility the United States will be seeing a lot less of him now.

Els had complained at the World Match Play in England that the PGA Tour sent him a letter trying to force him to play at least 20 events in the States next year instead of the usual minimum 15.

According to PGA Tour rules, a full member playing 15 PGA Tour events gets three releases for tournaments played opposite its events. A golfer must play an additional five PGA Tour events for each subsequent release.

Els will end up playing 16 PGA Tour events this year, but the tour has permitted him to play in nine overseas tournaments opposite PGA Tour events.

"I think they need to understand the golf world has changed over the years," Els told European media. "There's a world outside America, and I'm part of it. Don't start putting a padlock around me, because that's not going to work."

The risk the PGA Tour takes is that a frustrated Els will give up his full membership status, play just seven PGA Tour events on sponsor exemptions next year, play the three major champion-ships over here and two or three World Golf Championship events and then play more overseas.

Instead of more PGA Tour events, Els could play four or five fewer in the United States.

This leaves local foundations running PGA Tour events wondering what to make of the tour's strong stand.

"We really want Ernie to play at Doral, and we have a good feeling about 2005," said Eddie Carbone, the Ford Championship at Doral's new executive director.

"But we really have no comment on the letter the PGA Tour sent to Ernie. I haven't seen it, and that's between Ernie and the PGA Tour."

It has left fans scratching their heads as to why the PGA Tour would take on the lovable Els.

But here in South Florida, there is some perspective. While it may not justify the risk the PGA Tour is taking, what happened here explains what is likely part of the tour's motivation.

The loss of stars overseas has to frustrate title sponsors like Ford that pay out millions in prize money. PGA Tour pros are playing for more than $230 million in purses over here thanks to these title sponsors, a figure that dwarfs any other tour.

While the PGA Tour has coaxed tournaments to more than triple their payouts over eight years, it hasn't guaranteed them more star power because of it.

PGA Tour pros are not playing more events. Phil Mickelson will play 22 this year, same as last year, one or two fewer than he averaged for 1997-2002.

Tiger Woods will play 17, down from his usual 19, thanks to his recent marriage. John Daly will play 21, down two from his average the three previous seasons. Davis Love III will play 24, about what he has averaged the past five years.

With the PGA Tour trying to secure renewals from title sponsors like Ford, with TV negotiations opening again next year, the tour is challenged to make sure TV and sponsors are getting their money's worth.

The PGA Tour gravy train may not be drying up, but with TV ratings down, purses aren't going to keep skyrocketing at the amazing rate we've seen the last eight years.

Title sponsors, the foundation of the tour, are happiest when they see stars teeing up.

And here's the thing, the PGA Tour's conflicting events policy provides Commissioner Tim Finchem great discretion in granting or denying releases.

"The commissioner may deny any particular release request if he determines that such a release would cause PGA Tour to be in violation of a contractual commitment to a tournament sponsor or would otherwise significantly and unreasonably harm PGA Tour and such sponsors," the policy states.

"Also, the commissioner shall be entitled, but not obligated, to grant additional releases when he determines that to do so would not unreasonably harm PGA Tour or the sponsor involved."

The PGA Tour's granting of releases to Dubai has unquestionably hurt the Ford Championship.

Els is reportedly working up an answer for the PGA Tour that could affect South Florida.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old October 25th, 2004, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.billZ
Tiger plays the same number of PGA Tour events as the guys that got the letters. Why has Tiger not gotten one? Preferrential treatment. Until this kind of stuff stops I will continue to denegrade the situation surround this ONE person. One person does not the tour make.
Anyway I believe it's a free country. YOu have the right to blindly follow and I have the right to criticize obvious inequalitiies in policy.
Dr, the issue is NOT about the number of Tour events played. It is about the number of non-tour events played.

It seems to me that you are "blindly" ignoring the facts of the situation in order to bring Tiger into the conversation.

While the policy may be wrong and inequitable, it is not giving Tiger any preference.....if anything, over the past few years, Ernie has received preferential treatment by being given permission to play many more non-tour events that he is "entitled to" under the present rules.
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Old October 26th, 2004, 10:11 AM
davecenter davecenter is offline
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Perhaps, but Ernie has helped the tour greatly by giving the tour attraction. I think he deserves to play in overseas tournaments. Perhaps not quite as many, or perhaps he should play one or two more PGA events, but I don't think the PGA should take away his overseas tournaments. That is his business, not theirs, as long as he meets the minimum for required number of PGA events.
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Old October 26th, 2004, 10:52 AM
golfgeek golfgeek is offline
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Dave, the key is not "number of overseas events" but "overseas events at the same time as a PGA Tour event," and particularly those where, like in Doral, Ernie's appearance is important to the business sake of the tour.

Try as we might to say "the Tour is doing great!," the fact is still that tournaments change sponsors fairly frequently, and the pressure on the Tour to find and keep sponsors is pretty high. Having big-name players in tournaments for which sponsors fork out a lot of cash is important to the financial health of the Tour.
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Old October 26th, 2004, 11:12 AM
davecenter davecenter is offline
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Ah, true, and yet I don't think it looks good for the tour to openly try to force Ernie to play. Perhaps it would be fine if he was required to play a few of the more important tournaments (and this is pretty tricky), as long as it was kept quiet. It looks like the tour is dying when they force players to play.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2004, 11:18 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Every overseas tournament a PGA Tour member plays in (that conflicts with a PGA Tour event) hurts the PGA Tour. Thus, the reason for limiting players from playing in conflicting events too often. If a player wants to play in more non-PGA Tour events he must commit to playing additional PGA Tour events. The rule is simple and understandable, but the formula is flawed.

I believe a compromise will be reached, but I don't expect the PGA Tour to back off very much. The new TV contract negotiations will be starting soon and in case you haven't noticed, the ratings are down considerably. This doesn't bode well for the PGA Tour. No big stars means low ratings. Low ratings means less sponsors and/or less sponsor money. Less sponsor money means lower prize money. You won't see very many "increased purses" in 2005. There's a reason for that and if you look at the fields of the last couple of tour events you'll see a major reason why.

While Brent Geiberger (Chrysler Classic, Greensboro), Andre Stolz (Michelin Championship, Las Vegas) and Ryan Palmer (Funai Classic, Disney) are deserving winners of the last 3 PGA Tour events, look back at the fields in those events and you won't find many Top 25 guys there. A closer look will tell you there weren't that many Top 50 guys either. That's a death sentence for these lesser events.

Again, I'm not sticking up for the PGA Tour, but am I the only one who sees that the Tour is only trying to protect itself and it's lesser known members?

The PGA Tour needs it's stars, and those stars need the PGA Tour.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2004, 11:38 AM
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DR.billZ DR.billZ is offline
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It's the TOUR PLAYERS bringing Tiger into the conversation, not me. I just post what I read.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2004, 11:59 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.billZ
It's the TOUR PLAYERS bringing Tiger into the conversation, not me. I just post what I read.
What are the Tour players saying about Tiger and this issue? I haven't read any comments from Els or Goosen concerning Tiger and the number of events he plays outside the PGA Tour. Did I miss something?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2004, 12:07 PM
davecenter davecenter is offline
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I didn't know we had any tour players on this board. Or did you read about them on the internet, the paper?!? A little confusing I think.
I understand what your saying about the tour league. And I agree that the players and the tour have a symbiotic relationship. One can't live without the other. But they need to come to an agreement that satisfies both the players and the tour. And yes, perhaps Els plays in too many overseas tournaments when he has obligations to the PGA. Perhaps he should try harder to fulfil those obligations. I really am not sure what specific conclusion should be reached. Nevertheless, I understand the concerns and issues of both sides, and they are both valid and deserve consideration.
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Old October 26th, 2004, 05:33 PM
ForgedRbest ForgedRbest is offline
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Here is a simple solution, but it would only work if the all the tours were governed by one body, but I doubt that will ever happen. The solution would be this, ban apperance fee money and add it to the purse, it would make all tournaments more lucrative. Secondly, make it mandatory for the champion to defend his title the next year. I think that would solve all this bickering between the PGA and Ernie, or others. But, like I said, it won't work unless all the tours work together.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old October 26th, 2004, 05:39 PM
stlcard_25 stlcard_25 is offline
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The problem is Forged that some events have no prayer of landing the top guys without paying appearance fees that PGA Tour events are barred from being able to do themselves. Think Tiger or Ernie would go to Dubai without the guarantee of a chunk of change that goes with it? It would work if guys would agree to play all over the world, but the players (especially Americans) normally like to stay close to home so it might shoot that down.
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Old October 26th, 2004, 05:47 PM
ForgedRbest ForgedRbest is offline
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Like I said card, it wouldn't work unless the combined tours were governed by one board. Some of these appearence fees are astronomical and more then the first place pays. If it was added to the purse some of these guys might change their minds. Of course the downside might be that the PGA has so much more appearence money then the other tours, and that would be deadly. Just a suggestion, but I know these lesser tournaments have a tremendous amount of appearence money. Maybe we just need a World Tour to supplant the PGA. The guys at the top definately have enough money to orginize one. That would be intresting to see.
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