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Old January 12th, 2005, 06:49 AM
JungleJ JungleJ is offline
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Paul Casey coming to account

I thought this article in the Daily Telegraph might be of interest...

Daily Telegraph article

If you cannot open the article, let me know and I will post it here...
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Old January 12th, 2005, 07:41 AM
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TyeDye TyeDye is offline
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Ill be watching with interest to see how fans react tomorrow.... i hope he wont be booed.

He obviously struggled to make a point in a sporting context and ended up digging himself into a deep hole (helped by the UK tabloids of course).

To be honest I think anyone who does (if they do) boo him will just be the kind of people who look for any excuse to cause contoversy. I think most golf fans are much more classy than that.

Im not sure what Azinger and Cooks motives are. It seems a little unfair to make him explain himself to his peers having already explained and apologiesed virtually everytime hes had a microphone shoved in his face since the world cup.

PS. I dont know if any of you saw the Tommy Bahama challenge, Casey played in that in Scottsdale and he wasnt booed once.
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Old January 12th, 2005, 07:58 AM
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Kosy Kosy is offline
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Completely agree. I feel sorry for him regarding this whole fiasco.
He live in america, works in america and has an american girlfriend.

Im sure this will all blow over after this week if the media just let it lie.
As for 'Zinger and Cook..... why should he have to account to them?
If i was Casey i would have no hesitation in telling Azinger where to go.
After all it wouldn't be the first time Azinger has gone looking for trouble.

Casey will always be welcomed back on the european tour if he decides
thats best.
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Old January 12th, 2005, 08:07 AM
JungleJ JungleJ is offline
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I didn't know that Azinger and Cook played Nike, but surely Casey would be more important to Nike than they are? If they don't like it, so what?

Also, not much respect for Titleist from me for trying to make it look like they were sacking Casey when they knew he was leaving...
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Old January 12th, 2005, 02:49 PM
wazmankg wazmankg is offline
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I'd be surprised if he were booed. I'm sure he's learned his lesson and will be more diplomatic in the future. I'm sure I'll get plenty of "slings & arrows" for saying this but it seems to me that most Americans are a bit insular and shall we say less than knowledgable about the world around us and other cultures.... or even our own country's actions, laws, history, rights and responsibilities. Much of that can be attributed to the fact that so much American "culture" spans the globe, so naturally those in other countries would be more familiar with us than we are of them. Not really very healthy, though IMO.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 06:16 AM
JungleJ JungleJ is offline
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In effect, wazmankg, that is what Casey was trying rather unsuccessfully to say.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 08:29 AM
igolfalot igolfalot is offline
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It is unfortunate for him. In other sports I have heard players say that during the game they hate their opposition but after they are friends. I am sure that was what he meant. If he feels that building a dislike for his opponent between the ropes is what it takes for him to do well. So be it. Its like that in every other sport.

Again The media did this to him.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 08:54 AM
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valeogut valeogut is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazmankg
I'd be surprised if he were booed. I'm sure he's learned his lesson and will be more diplomatic in the future. I'm sure I'll get plenty of "slings & arrows" for saying this but it seems to me that most Americans are a bit insular and shall we say less than knowledgable about the world around us and other cultures.... or even our own country's actions, laws, history, rights and responsibilities. Much of that can be attributed to the fact that so much American "culture" spans the globe, so naturally those in other countries would be more familiar with us than we are of them. Not really very healthy, though IMO.
Jeez, wazman, I expected better from you. Why in the world would you want to perpetuate this misleading negative stereotype of Americans?

Every country has its share of stupid people, and the United States is no exception. That doesn't mean that because we have our fair share of idiots that "most" Americans are "insular." Being proud of one's country and the principles on which it was founded does not make a person "insular." Deciding that one prefers his own nation's traditions and institutions to those of other countries does not make one "insular." Supporting the growth and/or continuing robustness of one's homeland's economy does not make one "insular." And putting the continued security and safety of one's own country before the interests of foreign powers is not "insular" either.

In fact, America's generosity in providing aid and protection throughout the world for the poor and weak should have, by now, convinced any critic of our "insularity" that we are the least self-centered and isolated country in the history of mankind. These continued accusations of "insularity" are possibly based on the lame-brained isolationist proclamations of a few, not the practice or ideals of the many. And those that persist in these misrepresentations of America are simply distorting reality or engaging in the popular "intellectual" practice of proving their sophistication by criticizing America.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 09:31 AM
JungleJ JungleJ is offline
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Originally Posted by valeogut
Jeez, wazman, I expected better from you. Why in the world would you want to perpetuate this misleading negative stereotype of Americans?

Every country has its share of stupid people, and the United States is no exception. That doesn't mean that because we have our fair share of idiots that "most" Americans are "insular." Being proud of one's country and the principles on which it was founded does not make a person "insular." Deciding that one prefers his own nation's traditions and institutions to those of other countries does not make one "insular." Supporting the growth and/or continuing robustness of one's homeland's economy does not make one "insular." And putting the continued security and safety of one's own country before the interests of foreign powers is not "insular" either.

In fact, America's generosity in providing aid and protection throughout the world for the poor and weak should have, by now, convinced any critic of our "insularity" that we are the least self-centered and isolated country in the history of mankind. These continued accusations of "insularity" are possibly based on the lame-brained isolationist proclamations of a few, not the practice or ideals of the many. And those that persist in these misrepresentations of America are simply distorting reality or engaging in the popular "intellectual" practice of proving their sophistication by criticizing America.
I think you somewhat misread wazmankg's post - you seem to confuse American foreign policy with American people - the two are not the same thing. wazmankg speaks of many Americans (ie people, and normal people at that, not diplomats etc who almost definition cannot be regarded as insular) as being insular. Not being American I won't comment on that, except to state that that IS the perceived viewpoint of many non-Americans, including many who have travelled to the US and experienced it.

I would only add that an examination of many American economic policies, and indeed its intervention decisions abroad in recent years often show that these decisions are taken in blatant self-interest.

May I recommend that if this thread is to continue, the politics part of it is excised and moved to "the Lounge"?
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Old January 13th, 2005, 09:45 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Valeogut, I have no doubt that Mr. Casey would disagree with your intelligent and well worded response to his (and other's) "insular" comments. After all, he went to an American college and lives in a country club world few Americans are privy to. He has to know how most Americans are. I'll bet his grand parents are proud of his statements.

His Ryder Cup statements may have been over-blown and the emotions of team play don't bother me. The "insular" comments just show his lack of knowledge about the heart of the American people and his stupidity for expressing that lack of knowledge. Would I boo him? No. Would I tell him to shut his mouth and play golf? You bet!
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Old January 13th, 2005, 10:26 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igolfalot
It is unfortunate for him. In other sports I have heard players say that during the game they hate their opposition but after they are friends. I am sure that was what he meant. If he feels that building a dislike for his opponent between the ropes is what it takes for him to do well. So be it. Its like that in every other sport.

Again The media did this to him.
No, the media did not do this to him. He did it to "him." You're absolutely right about other players in other sports psyching themselves up by creating an intense dislike for an opponent. Maybe our American team could learn a lesson there because it sure seems to work for the Euros. More power to them if that's truly the case. I've yet to hear or read any negative comments from American sports fans about that particular part part of Casey's comments.

The media did not create his "insular" comment or his ensuing explanation. He opened his mouth and insulted Americans. He earns his living playing a game that is driven by US dollars and US fans. He then bit the hand that feeds him and he deserves a resounding slap from that hand.

He's intitled to his opinion, as are are those of us that are offended by his impudent and ungrateful comments about a people and country he obviously knows very little about.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 10:34 AM
JungleJ JungleJ is offline
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Originally Posted by leaguegolf
No, the media did not do this to him. He did it to "him." You're absolutely right about other players in other sports psyching themselves up by creating an intense dislike for an opponent. Maybe our American team could learn a lesson there because it sure seems to work for the Euros. More power to them if that's truly the case. I've yet to hear or read any negative comments from American sports fans about that particular part part of Casey's comments.

The media did not create his "insular" comment or his ensuing explanation. He opened his mouth and insulted Americans. He earns his living playing a game that is driven by US dollars and US fans. He then bit the hand that feeds him and he deserves a resounding slap from that hand.

He's intitled to his opinion, as are are those of us that are offended by his impudent and ungrateful comments about a people and country he obviously knows very little about.
Go on, have your opinion... it seems to me that Casey is being a big man in this case by holding his hand up and saying "I didn't say what I meant to say, but I'm not hiding from what I DID say". If people can't get past that, that's their lookout.
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Old January 13th, 2005, 10:47 AM
leaguegolf leaguegolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JungleJ
Go on, have your opinion... it seems to me that Casey is being a big man in this case by holding his hand up and saying "I didn't say what I meant to say, but I'm not hiding from what I DID say". If people can't get past that, that's their lookout.
"Insular" is "insular" and it was an insult regardless of how Casey tries to spin it. Most Americans got over it when we considered the source. I just find it amusing that a college educated man of the world like Casey wouldn't see that the timing of any negative comments about Americans (coming on the heels of our humiliating defeat at the Ryder Cup) was going to cause him grief. Casey showed how big a man he is when he opened his mouth the first time.

It's not the first, nor will it be the last time, a high profile athlete has said something he wishes he hadn't said. It's sports, not world politics and occassional comments like these (from any athlete) give us all something to talk about.

Besides, now that Monty's won us over, we need a new European villain!
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Old January 13th, 2005, 10:53 AM
wazmankg wazmankg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valeogut
Jeez, wazman, I expected better from you. Why in the world would you want to perpetuate this misleading negative stereotype of Americans?

Every country has its share of stupid people, and the United States is no exception. That doesn't mean that because we have our fair share of idiots that "most" Americans are "insular." Being proud of one's country and the principles on which it was founded does not make a person "insular." Deciding that one prefers his own nation's traditions and institutions to those of other countries does not make one "insular." Supporting the growth and/or continuing robustness of one's homeland's economy does not make one "insular." And putting the continued security and safety of one's own country before the interests of foreign powers is not "insular" either.

In fact, America's generosity in providing aid and protection throughout the world for the poor and weak should have, by now, convinced any critic of our "insularity" that we are the least self-centered and isolated country in the history of mankind. These continued accusations of "insularity" are possibly based on the lame-brained isolationist proclamations of a few, not the practice or ideals of the many. And those that persist in these misrepresentations of America are simply distorting reality or engaging in the popular "intellectual" practice of proving their sophistication by criticizing America.
valeogut, while I suspect we don't agree on politics, I think you've misunderstood me on this one, because you've really mis-represented what I posted. I was not referring to US policy, or the average citizen's love of our country's traditions, institutions, generosity or desire for its economic growth & strength, etc(OT, criticizing America when one thinks its in the wrong is not just my right but my duty as a citizen, IMO, but that's not at all where I was coming from). I thought I was pretty clear when I said "most Americans are a bit insular and shall we say less than knowledgable about the world around us and other cultures.... or even our own country's actions, laws, history, rights and responsibilities"; ie, at the risk of trading in generalities, the average American is less knowledgable about the history and culture of pick-your-European/Asian/etc-country than the average citizen of one of those countries is of our own. period. That was my only point. As I said this is only natural, because American culture and influence is so prevalent and dominant elsewhere. English as a 2nd language is a requirement from early grade school in many countries, out of necessity. I'm sure you're familiar with the studies that show where our students rank academically compared to those of other developed nations. It's not a pretty picture. If you don't like the term insular (detached in outlook and experience), then I'll drop it... it's redundant anyway in the context I used it.

America = the greatest country in the world ?

Thou shalt not criticize America or Americans ?
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Old January 13th, 2005, 10:58 AM
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TyeDye TyeDye is offline
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I dont want to get into the insular or not debate because I only know about 5 americans in person so I cant really judge, but if thats how Paul feels he should say it... if it has negative consequences he will deal with them but it would be hollow and fake for him to spend the next season on bended knee apologising at every turn.
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