Something that surprises me is that Vijay has more votes than Gary Player. Anyone who thinks that Vijay is a better golfer than Gary Player is... well... something i cannot say on a family-friendly site...
I counted 6 players on the list, including VJ & The King who aren't/weren't as good as Player, IMO.
HOLD ON - IMO Tom Watson is better than VJ, Ernie, Greg Norman, Seve and Gary Player
Tom Watson > VJ, Ernie, Greg Norman, Seve
Gary Player > Tom Watson, IMO. Player won 9 majors & 2 Tournament of Championships, won the career slam, only missing the double career slam by 1 US Open. The majority of Watson's majors were British Opens. Player played a truly International schedule winning well over 100 worldwide. His performance in the big ones makes it clear to me that he'd be at or near the very top of the leaderboard in all-time wins had he decided to play on the PGA tour full-time. It's a shame that Watson's case of the yips shortened his period of dominance.
Yeah, I agree with y'all that Gary Player is one of the most underrated players ever. He got overshadowed by Jack and Arnie, one of which didn't even outperform him (Arnie). Kind of sad that he's been sort of overlooked, but in my opinion he's one of the very best ever. Not many people have won the career Grand Slam, and like waz said he was only one US Open away from being with Tiger and Jack as the only multiple Grand Slammers.
Gary had Arnie on longevity, but I'm not sure that it's fair to say he outperformed him. From 58-64, Arnie won more times (37) and more majors (7) than anyone on Tour. In fact it compares reasonably well with Tiger's stats in his last 7 seasons of 39 wins and 9 majors. Gary had a big spread on his wins, and when comparing the careers, he'd have the advantage, but in that short time period, there was no one better than Arnie. Gary could never say he was the best over any period of time IMO, just really good over a long time.
My vote went to Tiger , because he has won 13 majors to trail only Nicklaus' 20 (yes , I consider US Amateur titles majors) , and will almost certainly win many more as his prime years should lie ahead . Not to say he isn't an admirable golfer and man , Nicklaus didn't bring much to the game other than slow play , though he may have been the first top golfer to solely focus on majors (Hogan did but largely due to health) . Tiger is bringing the game to people who otherwise felt or WERE excluded . I think his First Tee program will eventually yield huge benefits for the game . Tiger already holds some incredible records in the majors , and anyone who watched what he did at Pebble Beach in the Open , and to Augusta in 1997 (I live in Augusta - the course was very hard and fast that year and the field 's best could only get to -6 while Tiger transcended all at -18 , in tough scoring conditions) should feel he is the best the game has yet produced .
Gary had Arnie on longevity, but I'm not sure that it's fair to say he outperformed him. From 58-64, Arnie won more times (37) and more majors (7) than anyone on Tour. In fact it compares reasonably well with Tiger's stats in his last 7 seasons of 39 wins and 9 majors. Gary had a big spread on his wins, and when comparing the careers, he'd have the advantage, but in that short time period, there was no one better than Arnie. Gary could never say he was the best over any period of time IMO, just really good over a long time.
Still, though, why should Gary be overlooked and yet Vijay, Seve, Greg Norman, etc. get votes? That's just not giving credit where credit is due.
Nicklaus didn't bring much to the game other than slow play...
Most of us judge the greatest players by what they do on the course, not off of it. Yes, Tiger has his foundation and has brought many otherwise uninterested people to the game (that's not all good by the way) but it has nothing to do with who the greatest player is.
To say Nicklaus brought nothing to the game other than slow play does the man and the game a grave injustice. Do you honestly think golf would be what it is today if it weren't for men like Jack, Arnie, Gary, and others? Tiger owes a debt of gratitude to those men and countless others that came before him. Contrary to the beliefs of some.......there was golf before Tiger.
Still, though, why should Gary be overlooked and yet Vijay, Seve, Greg Norman, etc. get votes? That's just not giving credit where credit is due.
He shouldn't...but I can see how some people might think Norman could be considered one of the best ever, as he had his time at the top of the game as well. Seve is a bit puzzling and Vijay as well, but this poll was created early this year when Vijay was still on that amazing hot streak, so that coulda swayed a vote.
He shouldn't...but I can see how some people might think Norman could be considered one of the best ever, as he had his time at the top of the game as well. Seve is a bit puzzling and Vijay as well, but this poll was created early this year when Vijay was still on that amazing hot streak, so that coulda swayed a vote.
The thing about Gary was he was so overshadowed when he was playing his best by Arnie in his prime and Jack as a rising star. People overlook that. Even now. The same is true for Tom Watson later in Jacks career.
The thing about Gary was he was so overshadowed when he was playing his best by Arnie in his prime and Jack as a rising star. People overlook that. Even now. The same is true for Tom Watson later in Jacks career.
Player's career spanned the primes of both Arnie and Jack, as well as much of Trevino's, Weiskopf's, early Watson, Casper's, Miller's, etc. He won his 1st PGA event in '58 and his 1st Major(The Open) in '59, the year after Arnie won his 1st Major. He won his last 3 in '78 at the age of 43, including his 3rd Masters and 2nd Tournament of Champions. He was the first non-US golfer to really make a splash on the PGA tour and IMO, the only reason he didn't rack up many more PGA victories or be thought of as highly as he should (though he was one of the Big 3 for a reason) is because he simply didn't play nearly a full schedule over here. He was also the 1st to emphasize the importance of fitness in golf.
I think this is very easy. By far Bobby Jones is the greatest golfer of all time. Compare the years. Bobby Jones captured 13 majors before he was 29. When I say majors, I mean majors during his era. Everyone knew when Jones was on the course that they were playing for 2nd. Its very sad to see that he's not even on the list.
The only question in my mind was how tough was the competition in Bobby Jones era versus, the Ben Hogan, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson era, or the Arnie Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, Lee Trevino, Tom Watson era, or the current Tiger, Ernie Els, Vijay Singh, Phil Nickelson, Retief Goosen era.
October 17th, 2005, 03:15 PM
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